Have you heard of Apple's decision on the rollout of Siri AI in Europe?
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@algernon @gklka @EUCommission Nothing is wrong with that. But that’s not what is happening in real life, and the customer gets punished.
@zsolt @gklka @EUCommission Then blame the party who doesn't play by the rules: Apple.
The rules are beneficial. Apple deciding to restrict features instead of playing by the rules is Apple's fault, and theirs only.
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Agreed. I think Apple is just as responsible on this one. And they should offer other models the same functionality. I just don't think that the regulator's job to force them to do so.
In the end, the reality of the matter is that both Apple and the EU want to "protect" me, and I end up without the features I want. Let me be an adult, I can take care of myself and make my own choices.
@webjac @mr_harm @EUCommission Let’s do a test.
You write to Apple (press, legal, mgmt etc) that they should stop being asses about it - assign blame where it belongs.Write to them at least as many times as you have posted here, providing PR for them (free or not, we do not know).
Once that ratio is there, it will feel a little bit more genuine.
Also let us know what they reply. -
@zopyx @EUCommission
Standard iCloud protection is the default, and under that model Apple keeps the keys for much of the user’s cloud data in its data centers. Apple says this allows it to decrypt data for recovery, restoring backups, and signing in on a new device.
Even with Advanced Data Protection, not everything is fully end-to-end encrypted. Apple explicitly lists iCloud Mail, Contacts, and Calendars as categories that do not use end-to-end encryption, and it says some metadata remains under standard protection with keys stored by Apple.In several categories, more privacy-focused providers such as GrapheneOS, Proton, and Signal go further by making stronger encryption or stricter data isolation part of the product design rather than an optional extra.
@lijepasam @EUCommission good enough for most of the users, many options if you need more,,way ahead compared to Google and Android. what is your point? There is room enough for all players.
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@webjac @EUCommission I'm just trying to understand how you can want more choices but then not want laws to be enforced that require equal choice and access.
I'm not understanding the logic there.
@Javensbukan @EUCommission I think the choices should be left to the market demand. If people demand a product where they want to feel "more protected" they should have that option.
(not that Apple not offering more choices is "protecting" anything much anyway)
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@webjac @Javensbukan @EUCommission And the point is that Apple is removing choice for all users, then stomping the ground and withholding one feature.
If all Apple fanboys would direct anger where it belongs, Apple would stop this silly behaviour sooner, so let’s stop being weirdly antagonistic against EU when they do good things
@richlv @Javensbukan @EUCommission But Apple should be allowed to offer their limited product as they want it, and if people don't like they won't buy it. I'm not a fan of the idea of the EU forcing any company to sell something they don’t want to sell
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@danieldk @EUCommission they will come around eventually I hope. Trust me I want to be able to pick a different model. What worries me is a regulator meddling in unnecessarily.
Also in the end, the reality of the matter is that both Apple and the EU want to protect me, and I end up without the features I want. Let me be an adult, I can take care of myself and make my own choices.
@webjac @danieldk @EUCommission Apple wants to earn money
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@zsolt @gklka @EUCommission Then blame the party who doesn't play by the rules: Apple.
The rules are beneficial. Apple deciding to restrict features instead of playing by the rules is Apple's fault, and theirs only.
@algernon @gklka @EUCommission Yes, I’m not suggesting that Apple is the victim here. They do have to work on their products to make them compliant. However, the EU should consider the underlying reasons for this situation. Even with good intentions, the outcomes of the rules in this case don’t align with what customers want. Therefore, the rules need to be reevaluated.
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@webjac @EUCommission You don't, in a democracy with rule of law, get to decide the laws that apply to you alone.
Actions, like not wearing masks or not getting vaccinated during a pandemic, and uses of some technologies, have consequences for others, not just you.
We have already seen plenty of cases of US abuse of the rights of EU citizens via tech firms and the current US govt would like nothing better than to destroy the EU. Thanks but no thanks.
@samueljohnson @EUCommission that's a different thing.
By not wearing masks you're endangering other people, so you might end up harming society. Personal freedom ends where other people get affected, and that should be regulated, as minimally as necessary.
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@mr_harm @EUCommission @gklka Well, Apple users in the EU had access to similar features before the DMA, so it’s likely that some aspects of the DMA need to be reconsidered.
@zsolt @mr_harm @EUCommission @gklka Why not take the other position - that predatory companies should be reconsidered?
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@webjac @mr_harm @EUCommission Let’s do a test.
You write to Apple (press, legal, mgmt etc) that they should stop being asses about it - assign blame where it belongs.Write to them at least as many times as you have posted here, providing PR for them (free or not, we do not know).
Once that ratio is there, it will feel a little bit more genuine.
Also let us know what they reply.@richlv @mr_harm @EUCommission You know what? i'll do so, and they won't reply most likely.
But maybe, if enough people end up writing like me, they will have an announcement on their next WWDC just as apologetic as they were about liquid glass this time.
because the backlash did make them revert those changes.
And in this case, they're should offer the choice to the user, yes.
But I much rather see them do it because people complained, and not because they forced to by a regulatory body.
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@gklka @algernon @EUCommission We don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes, which is fucking frustrating, because as a user I shouldn’t even care about that. What I do care about is that I can’t use features of a product I bought (for years) because of political games.
I’m not saying Apple is doing the right thing here. They are not. But neither the EU.
@zsolt @gklka @algernon @EUCommission Please do write to any Apple contacts you can find. Please do it at least as many times as in this thread.
If Apple users did that instead of weird messages that support bad behaviour, they would sooner get whatever features they want. -
@webjac @danieldk @EUCommission Apple wants to earn money
@birkenator @danieldk @EUCommission oh no doubt about it. Half of their motivation (if not all of it) is to trap you in their garden to make more money from you.
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@algernon @gklka @EUCommission Yes, I’m not suggesting that Apple is the victim here. They do have to work on their products to make them compliant. However, the EU should consider the underlying reasons for this situation. Even with good intentions, the outcomes of the rules in this case don’t align with what customers want. Therefore, the rules need to be reevaluated.
@zsolt @algernon @gklka @EUCommission Why the rules, not the behaviour of the violator?
«Yes, we have speed limits, but this one guy never obeys them, thus the speed limits must be reevaluated»
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@david @EUCommission I agree, the spirit of the regulation is good. but In the end, the reality of the matter is that both Apple and the EU want to "protect" me, and I end up without the features I want. Let me be an adult, I can take care of myself and make my own choices.
@webjac @EUCommission I think Apple want to protect themselves. Even Bluetooth doesn't function according to the Bluetooth standard on Apple phones and tablets. It's just how Apple thinks. They want everyone using their devices and services only. Interoperability is fundamental to your freedom to make choices. Also: If you're in the UK, you will get Siri AI.
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@danieldk @EUCommission they will come around eventually I hope. Trust me I want to be able to pick a different model. What worries me is a regulator meddling in unnecessarily.
Also in the end, the reality of the matter is that both Apple and the EU want to protect me, and I end up without the features I want. Let me be an adult, I can take care of myself and make my own choices.
@webjac @danieldk @EUCommission
How did you determine the rules unnecessary. What rule exactly prevents apple from delivering the features? (Same for iPhone mirroring - what rule?)
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@phillip @webjac @EUCommission
I agree with intelligent regulation.
Security. Privacy. Environmental impact. Etc.
But choice or otherwise of AI software is not the battle to have.
It undermines the efforts to do useful regulation.
If the EU wants to fight for interoperability it should fight Microsoft on document formats - and stop buying Microsoft software itself (which it does, hugely).
@rzeta0 @webjac @EUCommission And talking about free markets: Apple fears the free market. When was the last time you bought an application outside apples closed and totaly regulated market? Apple's ecosystem is more regulated than bananas in the EU.
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@zsolt @algernon @gklka @EUCommission Why the rules, not the behaviour of the violator?
«Yes, we have speed limits, but this one guy never obeys them, thus the speed limits must be reevaluated»
@richlv @algernon @gklka @EUCommission Yeah, we do reevaluate speed limits from time to time, because cars get safer, so maybe we can go faster.
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@EUCommission
Cool. Can you get them to not roll out Siri AI in the US as well?@mtconleyuk @EUCommission just don’t use it?
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@algernon @gklka @EUCommission Yes, I’m not suggesting that Apple is the victim here. They do have to work on their products to make them compliant. However, the EU should consider the underlying reasons for this situation. Even with good intentions, the outcomes of the rules in this case don’t align with what customers want. Therefore, the rules need to be reevaluated.
@zsolt @gklka @EUCommission I disagree. A company being hellbent on not playing by the rules is not on the rulemaker to fix.
The fix is easy: either provide the same level of access to third party AI stuff, or drive Apple's own through the same sandbox or w/e the others are subjected to. It's not hard.
If people really don't want third party AI, or third party app stores, they can simply... not install them, and use their devices as-is.
The only thing they'd lose is being able to play victim. Doing so will sooner or later stop being a wise play anyway.
(Obviously, the optics of "every AI has full access to your phone" is not a good look. I consider that as a happy accident.)
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@webjac @danieldk @EUCommission
How did you determine the rules unnecessary. What rule exactly prevents apple from delivering the features? (Same for iPhone mirroring - what rule?)
@tevo @danieldk @EUCommission according to them, for iPhone mirroring, they say that the EU regulators will ask them to also offer that for android.
And they “can’t” offer it to android.
The DMA requires paltform marked as marketplaces to offer the same apis they use to competitors, and that’s the rule they’re fighting with.
They say it’s privacy, but there’s a big “competitive advantage” component to it
