People have strange heroic ideas about the Viking Period.
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@Pepijn
The sources aren't super strong on this. But no, my impression is that you get out of the Viking game ASAP. Because you want that farm above Dublin and that Irish-speaking girl who seems to like you.@mrundkvist The sources thing is what made me wonder. I remember reading about a "Senior-Viking", as in someone who clearly did the Viking thing for a long time (decades) and did so alongside a somewhat fixed group of others.
But it does seem likely then that was more the exception than the norm. And maybe the sources kinda favour the not-boring-stuff.
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@Pepijn @mrundkvist Not really, because there wasn't a term of service, whereas you had to serve as many as 25 years as a legionary to get your diploma and qualify for land and settlement bonuses in a colonia.
@Pepijn @mrundkvist And often Vikings weren't so much about directly pillaging (though they did plenty of that too), but using the threat of violence to extort money or land concessions out of local rulers. There is a phrase from Kippling about once you've paid a Danegeld, you'll never rid yourself of the Dane.
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In the 790s, the Scandinavians put sails on their ships and went to raid their first literate area, England. Thus opens the so-called Viking Period, which is an artefact of written history.
Archaeology has demonstrated that before that time, the Scandies had been raiding *each other* at shorter range with rowing ships for at least 1100 years.
From Hjortspring c. 340 BC to Salme c. AD 750.
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@mrundkvist The sources thing is what made me wonder. I remember reading about a "Senior-Viking", as in someone who clearly did the Viking thing for a long time (decades) and did so alongside a somewhat fixed group of others.
But it does seem likely then that was more the exception than the norm. And maybe the sources kinda favour the not-boring-stuff.
@Pepijn
None of the written sources were produced as a sober, general narrative account of a period. -
In the 790s, the Scandinavians put sails on their ships and went to raid their first literate area, England. Thus opens the so-called Viking Period, which is an artefact of written history.
Archaeology has demonstrated that before that time, the Scandies had been raiding *each other* at shorter range with rowing ships for at least 1100 years.
From Hjortspring c. 340 BC to Salme c. AD 750.
@mrundkvist
Du är toppen som delar med dig av din kunskap. Mitt flöde tackar dig.
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@mrundkvist
Du är toppen som delar med dig av din kunskap. Mitt flöde tackar dig. -
@mrundkvist
Du är toppen som delar med dig av din kunskap. Mitt flöde tackar dig.@helenaviking
Jag tänker så mycket hela tiden, och jag är så van efter nästan 40 år att pubba alla mina konstiga tankar och dåliga vitsar online. -
In the 790s, the Scandinavians put sails on their ships and went to raid their first literate area, England. Thus opens the so-called Viking Period, which is an artefact of written history.
Archaeology has demonstrated that before that time, the Scandies had been raiding *each other* at shorter range with rowing ships for at least 1100 years.
From Hjortspring c. 340 BC to Salme c. AD 750.
@mrundkvist So what do we do with the 5 viking cities in Ireland now?
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@mrundkvist @Pepijn I've read part of the Icelandic Saga of the Burnt Njáll and what surprised me was that there seemed to be quite a few kings and queens around the sea routes, whom they visited, so kind of loose "nations" or "administrative areas". Maybe the beginnings of current Scandi states? And the Icelandic seemed to call only part of their Scandi peers as "vikings"?
I'm Finnish so we didn't have this seafaring folk unless some Western Finnish dudes joined some Scandi crews.@mrundkvist @Pepijn but I didn't know that "viking" was a job. This helps to understand the context. Thanks.
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@helenaviking
Jag tänker så mycket hela tiden, och jag är så van efter nästan 40 år att pubba alla mina konstiga tankar och dåliga vitsar online.@mrundkvist haha, det är tur vi är två om det
@helenaviking -
@helenaviking
Jag tänker så mycket hela tiden, och jag är så van efter nästan 40 år att pubba alla mina konstiga tankar och dåliga vitsar online.@mrundkvist
Perfekt för min nyfikenhet och kunskapstörst! -
@mrundkvist haha, det är tur vi är två om det
@helenaviking@meraord @mrundkvist
3! *Påpekar* -
In the 790s, the Scandinavians put sails on their ships and went to raid their first literate area, England. Thus opens the so-called Viking Period, which is an artefact of written history.
Archaeology has demonstrated that before that time, the Scandies had been raiding *each other* at shorter range with rowing ships for at least 1100 years.
From Hjortspring c. 340 BC to Salme c. AD 750.
@mrundkvist I would employ much caution referring to literate sources (monks) because their description of interactions with the Norse “raiders” bears little resemblance to reality.
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The more I learn about the Viking Period, the more I am secure in my conviction the best job during that period was any-job-but-Viking.
Shore based admin support sounds like a Viking Period dream job.
@Pepijn @mrundkvist
> Shore based admin support sounds like a Viking Period dream job.I read a book about the viking period and came to the opposite conclusion. The pressure of too many younger sons, scarce/poor farmland, and violent mythology drove young Norwegians, Swedes, and Danes along every coast and up even shallow rivers throughout Europe, and no coastal area was safe at the height of viking activity. Seaside towns and monastaries were sacked repeatedly and vikings raided each other.
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Some of them even migrated from what we now call Denmark, across the North Sea to what we now call East Yorkshire and North Lincolnshire, settled there and showed us how to farm.
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@Pepijn @mrundkvist And often Vikings weren't so much about directly pillaging (though they did plenty of that too), but using the threat of violence to extort money or land concessions out of local rulers. There is a phrase from Kippling about once you've paid a Danegeld, you'll never rid yourself of the Dane.
@Infoseepage @Pepijn @mrundkvist they were delighted when they were let off by the Danish courts without having to pay a scat or fine.
They said they had been let off scat-free, which has mutated into scot-free. -
In the 790s, the Scandinavians put sails on their ships and went to raid their first literate area, England. Thus opens the so-called Viking Period, which is an artefact of written history.
Archaeology has demonstrated that before that time, the Scandies had been raiding *each other* at shorter range with rowing ships for at least 1100 years.
From Hjortspring c. 340 BC to Salme c. AD 750.
@mrundkvist So no crochet way of living?
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People have strange heroic ideas about the Viking Period. The reason is that they specifically read *heroic* literature, much of it written as historical semi-fiction hundreds of years later. It's like basing your ideas about the 1100s on Walter Scott.
Viking Period archaeology in Scandinavia is deeply unheroic. It concerns itself overwhelmingly with the non-Viking activities of farmers.
Most runestones deal with modest land inheritance.
Somehow, the slave trade always gets left out or glossed over in romantic descriptions of the viking period.
Also, old Norse religion does not seem very pleasant. Arguably christianity was an improvement for most people.
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@Pepijn
The sources aren't super strong on this. But no, my impression is that you get out of the Viking game ASAP. Because you want that farm above Dublin and that Irish-speaking girl who seems to like you.@mrundkvist @Pepijn apparently under Norse law the eldest son got everything so if you weren’t him your options were limited!
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Somehow, the slave trade always gets left out or glossed over in romantic descriptions of the viking period.
Also, old Norse religion does not seem very pleasant. Arguably christianity was an improvement for most people.
@jorny @mrundkvist on the theme of Martin's start of the thread, one reason Old Norse religion seems unsympathetic is that only Christians (and very occasionally Muslims) wrote anything about it.
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