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  3. I keep seeing the "cars replaced horses" thing related to "AI."

I keep seeing the "cars replaced horses" thing related to "AI."

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  • hex@kolektiva.socialH hex@kolektiva.social

    Some old white dude decided to jump all over yelling "Ackchyually, no one forced you to buy a car!!", and I'm just blocking. This shit is so easy to research. Like, yeah, people were forced to buy a car by minimum parking zoning that spread out cities, mass transit being (very intentionally) destroyed, and giant cars that murder people. There are actual laws that very intentionally made things worse, and then there's the intentionally created prisoner's dilemma of ever expanding car sizes.

    This shit is extremely easy to research. At this point I'm just assuming it's trolls or the type of people who would be like "but no one has *proved* smoking causes cancer" back in the 90's. Yeah, that was a thing, and they sounded *just fucking like these people today.*

    burly@olifant.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
    burly@olifant.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
    burly@olifant.social
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #15

    @Hex You can basically keep going back in time and find these types in perpetuity.

    1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • colman@mastodon.ieC colman@mastodon.ie

      @failedLyndonLaRouchite @Hex I’m going to guess those tramlines weren’t subsidised and probably weren’t allowed develop property?

      The thing about public transport is that most of the benefits are external to the system. The users don’t get most of them so you can’t charge an economic fare.

      And the external costs of cars are *huge* but never accounted for or charged.

      F This user is from outside of this forum
      F This user is from outside of this forum
      failedlyndonlarouchite@mas.to
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #16

      @Colman @Hex

      that I guess is possible - it would be nice to have an expert weight in

      but those tramlines were very very popular in their day, then, like long distance passenger rail, vanished, so maybe it was a conspiracy and maybe not

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • hex@kolektiva.socialH hex@kolektiva.social

        Some old white dude decided to jump all over yelling "Ackchyually, no one forced you to buy a car!!", and I'm just blocking. This shit is so easy to research. Like, yeah, people were forced to buy a car by minimum parking zoning that spread out cities, mass transit being (very intentionally) destroyed, and giant cars that murder people. There are actual laws that very intentionally made things worse, and then there's the intentionally created prisoner's dilemma of ever expanding car sizes.

        This shit is extremely easy to research. At this point I'm just assuming it's trolls or the type of people who would be like "but no one has *proved* smoking causes cancer" back in the 90's. Yeah, that was a thing, and they sounded *just fucking like these people today.*

        platypus@glammr.usP This user is from outside of this forum
        platypus@glammr.usP This user is from outside of this forum
        platypus@glammr.us
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #17

        @Hex wow I already blocked a different account for that guy on my server. Ban evasion kind of dude on top of it all

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • hex@kolektiva.socialH hex@kolektiva.social

          Some old white dude decided to jump all over yelling "Ackchyually, no one forced you to buy a car!!", and I'm just blocking. This shit is so easy to research. Like, yeah, people were forced to buy a car by minimum parking zoning that spread out cities, mass transit being (very intentionally) destroyed, and giant cars that murder people. There are actual laws that very intentionally made things worse, and then there's the intentionally created prisoner's dilemma of ever expanding car sizes.

          This shit is extremely easy to research. At this point I'm just assuming it's trolls or the type of people who would be like "but no one has *proved* smoking causes cancer" back in the 90's. Yeah, that was a thing, and they sounded *just fucking like these people today.*

          foolishowl@social.coopF This user is from outside of this forum
          foolishowl@social.coopF This user is from outside of this forum
          foolishowl@social.coop
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #18

          @Hex I usually groan when people complain about individualism, but then people go on about some edge case and how everyone could do that if they wanted to.

          I've lived in the US without a car. It wasn't a decision, I wouldn't have survived without luck and a lot of sacrifices, and it sucks that I haven't been able to see my mother in over ten years because she lives fifty miles from any mass transit.

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • hex@kolektiva.socialH hex@kolektiva.social

            I keep seeing the "cars replaced horses" thing related to "AI."

            People keep comparing "AI" to cars (positively) without thinking about the fact that cars were forced on people (AAA bought up and destroyed tram lines, there were massive protests, etc), and are the primary driver of climate change that is currently on track to make complex human society impossible. Meanwhile, cities that weren't destroyed for cars, or that have reversed most of the damage, are some of the most desirable places to live.

            Maybe we could take the car analogy as a warning. Maybe it could be a reminder to think about how forcing technology on people against their will can reshape society in a profoundly negative way.

            The answer for cities has been to right-size transit. Eliminate cars wherever possible, maintain emergency vehicles and mobility aids, and find more efficient alternatives (bikes, trams, metros, and trains) where possible. I feel as though we can extrapolate from the metaphor.

            We do not have to repeat the mistake of reshaping society around a single, oversimplified, solution in order to benefit a tiny minority. Perhaps we can actually choose the right technologies based on use cases, rather than hype or dogma.

            Cars didn't replace horses. Cars replaced walkable cities, tram lines and mass transit, and children playing in the streets.

            "Cars replaced horses" to the benefit of a small group of elite men, at tremendous cost to literally everyone else. When people say, "AI is the new 'cars replacing horses'" they are saying something very specific about their privilege and intentions.

            pkal@social.sdfeu.orgP This user is from outside of this forum
            pkal@social.sdfeu.orgP This user is from outside of this forum
            pkal@social.sdfeu.org
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #19

            @Hex TBH I think this is just a really shallow metaphore for "newer is faster/has more power" that breaks apart if you take it too literally. It should be enough to disagree with the framing, but alas.

            1 Reply Last reply
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            • hex@kolektiva.socialH hex@kolektiva.social

              I keep seeing the "cars replaced horses" thing related to "AI."

              People keep comparing "AI" to cars (positively) without thinking about the fact that cars were forced on people (AAA bought up and destroyed tram lines, there were massive protests, etc), and are the primary driver of climate change that is currently on track to make complex human society impossible. Meanwhile, cities that weren't destroyed for cars, or that have reversed most of the damage, are some of the most desirable places to live.

              Maybe we could take the car analogy as a warning. Maybe it could be a reminder to think about how forcing technology on people against their will can reshape society in a profoundly negative way.

              The answer for cities has been to right-size transit. Eliminate cars wherever possible, maintain emergency vehicles and mobility aids, and find more efficient alternatives (bikes, trams, metros, and trains) where possible. I feel as though we can extrapolate from the metaphor.

              We do not have to repeat the mistake of reshaping society around a single, oversimplified, solution in order to benefit a tiny minority. Perhaps we can actually choose the right technologies based on use cases, rather than hype or dogma.

              Cars didn't replace horses. Cars replaced walkable cities, tram lines and mass transit, and children playing in the streets.

              "Cars replaced horses" to the benefit of a small group of elite men, at tremendous cost to literally everyone else. When people say, "AI is the new 'cars replacing horses'" they are saying something very specific about their privilege and intentions.

              alonealastalovedalongthe@toot.cafeA This user is from outside of this forum
              alonealastalovedalongthe@toot.cafeA This user is from outside of this forum
              alonealastalovedalongthe@toot.cafe
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #20

              @Hex Also while horses could not be reasonably, ethically nor hygenically scaled to industrialize with cities past a certain point (hence mass transit), it is easy to forget horses are superior to Teslas.

              1. Horses are so reliable when cared for and trained that trail riding tourism is a stable relatively-safe global industry. Trail rides are often over rugged, chaotic terrain too.

              2. If you drive a horse drunk, or fall asleep at the reigns a horse has a brain so you *probably won't die.

              alonealastalovedalongthe@toot.cafeA martinvermeer@fediscience.orgM 2 Replies Last reply
              0
              • hex@kolektiva.socialH hex@kolektiva.social

                I keep seeing the "cars replaced horses" thing related to "AI."

                People keep comparing "AI" to cars (positively) without thinking about the fact that cars were forced on people (AAA bought up and destroyed tram lines, there were massive protests, etc), and are the primary driver of climate change that is currently on track to make complex human society impossible. Meanwhile, cities that weren't destroyed for cars, or that have reversed most of the damage, are some of the most desirable places to live.

                Maybe we could take the car analogy as a warning. Maybe it could be a reminder to think about how forcing technology on people against their will can reshape society in a profoundly negative way.

                The answer for cities has been to right-size transit. Eliminate cars wherever possible, maintain emergency vehicles and mobility aids, and find more efficient alternatives (bikes, trams, metros, and trains) where possible. I feel as though we can extrapolate from the metaphor.

                We do not have to repeat the mistake of reshaping society around a single, oversimplified, solution in order to benefit a tiny minority. Perhaps we can actually choose the right technologies based on use cases, rather than hype or dogma.

                Cars didn't replace horses. Cars replaced walkable cities, tram lines and mass transit, and children playing in the streets.

                "Cars replaced horses" to the benefit of a small group of elite men, at tremendous cost to literally everyone else. When people say, "AI is the new 'cars replacing horses'" they are saying something very specific about their privilege and intentions.

                livingpixel@indieweb.socialL This user is from outside of this forum
                livingpixel@indieweb.socialL This user is from outside of this forum
                livingpixel@indieweb.social
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #21

                @Hex When I first learned where the term "jaywalking" came from, I felt enormous sadness.

                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaywalking

                1 Reply Last reply
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                • alonealastalovedalongthe@toot.cafeA alonealastalovedalongthe@toot.cafe

                  @Hex Also while horses could not be reasonably, ethically nor hygenically scaled to industrialize with cities past a certain point (hence mass transit), it is easy to forget horses are superior to Teslas.

                  1. Horses are so reliable when cared for and trained that trail riding tourism is a stable relatively-safe global industry. Trail rides are often over rugged, chaotic terrain too.

                  2. If you drive a horse drunk, or fall asleep at the reigns a horse has a brain so you *probably won't die.

                  alonealastalovedalongthe@toot.cafeA This user is from outside of this forum
                  alonealastalovedalongthe@toot.cafeA This user is from outside of this forum
                  alonealastalovedalongthe@toot.cafe
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #22

                  @Hex **note** I do not endorse driving a horse while incapacitated.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • hex@kolektiva.socialH hex@kolektiva.social

                    I keep seeing the "cars replaced horses" thing related to "AI."

                    People keep comparing "AI" to cars (positively) without thinking about the fact that cars were forced on people (AAA bought up and destroyed tram lines, there were massive protests, etc), and are the primary driver of climate change that is currently on track to make complex human society impossible. Meanwhile, cities that weren't destroyed for cars, or that have reversed most of the damage, are some of the most desirable places to live.

                    Maybe we could take the car analogy as a warning. Maybe it could be a reminder to think about how forcing technology on people against their will can reshape society in a profoundly negative way.

                    The answer for cities has been to right-size transit. Eliminate cars wherever possible, maintain emergency vehicles and mobility aids, and find more efficient alternatives (bikes, trams, metros, and trains) where possible. I feel as though we can extrapolate from the metaphor.

                    We do not have to repeat the mistake of reshaping society around a single, oversimplified, solution in order to benefit a tiny minority. Perhaps we can actually choose the right technologies based on use cases, rather than hype or dogma.

                    Cars didn't replace horses. Cars replaced walkable cities, tram lines and mass transit, and children playing in the streets.

                    "Cars replaced horses" to the benefit of a small group of elite men, at tremendous cost to literally everyone else. When people say, "AI is the new 'cars replacing horses'" they are saying something very specific about their privilege and intentions.

                    beatpoet13@mastodon.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
                    beatpoet13@mastodon.socialB This user is from outside of this forum
                    beatpoet13@mastodon.social
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #23

                    @Hex Asbestos Implemantion was equally highly recommended, untill ...
                    human genius runs on originality, common stupidity however runs on repeat ...

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • hex@kolektiva.socialH hex@kolektiva.social

                      I keep seeing the "cars replaced horses" thing related to "AI."

                      People keep comparing "AI" to cars (positively) without thinking about the fact that cars were forced on people (AAA bought up and destroyed tram lines, there were massive protests, etc), and are the primary driver of climate change that is currently on track to make complex human society impossible. Meanwhile, cities that weren't destroyed for cars, or that have reversed most of the damage, are some of the most desirable places to live.

                      Maybe we could take the car analogy as a warning. Maybe it could be a reminder to think about how forcing technology on people against their will can reshape society in a profoundly negative way.

                      The answer for cities has been to right-size transit. Eliminate cars wherever possible, maintain emergency vehicles and mobility aids, and find more efficient alternatives (bikes, trams, metros, and trains) where possible. I feel as though we can extrapolate from the metaphor.

                      We do not have to repeat the mistake of reshaping society around a single, oversimplified, solution in order to benefit a tiny minority. Perhaps we can actually choose the right technologies based on use cases, rather than hype or dogma.

                      Cars didn't replace horses. Cars replaced walkable cities, tram lines and mass transit, and children playing in the streets.

                      "Cars replaced horses" to the benefit of a small group of elite men, at tremendous cost to literally everyone else. When people say, "AI is the new 'cars replacing horses'" they are saying something very specific about their privilege and intentions.

                      P This user is from outside of this forum
                      P This user is from outside of this forum
                      peterludemann@mathstodon.xyz
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #24

                      @Hex My suspicion is that most of the people who made the decisions that have left the US car-dependent weren't *intentionally* trying to boost cars over all else but simply weren't thinking about the negative externalities. Similarly for the people who devised exclusionary zoning in the suburbs (of course, *some* people did have malicious intentions in pushing this kind of zoning).
                      "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity"
                      And that stupidity (a.k.a. "car brains") explains why it's so difficult to dig us out of the hole that we've dug. Especially because almost every incremental step will make things worse before more incremental steps make things better.

                      [BTW, we won't minimize car usage until we get rid of "Euclidean zoning"]

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • hex@kolektiva.socialH hex@kolektiva.social

                        I keep seeing the "cars replaced horses" thing related to "AI."

                        People keep comparing "AI" to cars (positively) without thinking about the fact that cars were forced on people (AAA bought up and destroyed tram lines, there were massive protests, etc), and are the primary driver of climate change that is currently on track to make complex human society impossible. Meanwhile, cities that weren't destroyed for cars, or that have reversed most of the damage, are some of the most desirable places to live.

                        Maybe we could take the car analogy as a warning. Maybe it could be a reminder to think about how forcing technology on people against their will can reshape society in a profoundly negative way.

                        The answer for cities has been to right-size transit. Eliminate cars wherever possible, maintain emergency vehicles and mobility aids, and find more efficient alternatives (bikes, trams, metros, and trains) where possible. I feel as though we can extrapolate from the metaphor.

                        We do not have to repeat the mistake of reshaping society around a single, oversimplified, solution in order to benefit a tiny minority. Perhaps we can actually choose the right technologies based on use cases, rather than hype or dogma.

                        Cars didn't replace horses. Cars replaced walkable cities, tram lines and mass transit, and children playing in the streets.

                        "Cars replaced horses" to the benefit of a small group of elite men, at tremendous cost to literally everyone else. When people say, "AI is the new 'cars replacing horses'" they are saying something very specific about their privilege and intentions.

                        stekopf@mstdn.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                        stekopf@mstdn.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                        stekopf@mstdn.social
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #25

                        @Hex

                        Guess who loved cars like BigTech loves AI?

                        "We are aware that the motorway on which work begins today will stand as a monument to my Führer’s dynamism and indomitable will; that, long after we are gone, it will inspire our descendants to new deeds."
                        Gauleiter Sprenger,
                        23 September 1933,
                        Ground-breaking ceremony

                        Hitler: “My heart belongs to the car. The car has given me the happiest moments of my life; I really must say so.”

                        What a coincidence…

                        More in German:
                        https://mstdn.social/@stekopf/112366367181359514

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • hex@kolektiva.socialH hex@kolektiva.social

                          I keep seeing the "cars replaced horses" thing related to "AI."

                          People keep comparing "AI" to cars (positively) without thinking about the fact that cars were forced on people (AAA bought up and destroyed tram lines, there were massive protests, etc), and are the primary driver of climate change that is currently on track to make complex human society impossible. Meanwhile, cities that weren't destroyed for cars, or that have reversed most of the damage, are some of the most desirable places to live.

                          Maybe we could take the car analogy as a warning. Maybe it could be a reminder to think about how forcing technology on people against their will can reshape society in a profoundly negative way.

                          The answer for cities has been to right-size transit. Eliminate cars wherever possible, maintain emergency vehicles and mobility aids, and find more efficient alternatives (bikes, trams, metros, and trains) where possible. I feel as though we can extrapolate from the metaphor.

                          We do not have to repeat the mistake of reshaping society around a single, oversimplified, solution in order to benefit a tiny minority. Perhaps we can actually choose the right technologies based on use cases, rather than hype or dogma.

                          Cars didn't replace horses. Cars replaced walkable cities, tram lines and mass transit, and children playing in the streets.

                          "Cars replaced horses" to the benefit of a small group of elite men, at tremendous cost to literally everyone else. When people say, "AI is the new 'cars replacing horses'" they are saying something very specific about their privilege and intentions.

                          quasit@beige.partyQ This user is from outside of this forum
                          quasit@beige.partyQ This user is from outside of this forum
                          quasit@beige.party
                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                          #26

                          @Hex
                          I've never forgotten that the USA had a strong network of inter-city light rail before the oil industry got Eisenhower to demolish it and build the interstate highway system that's a big part of what's killing the planet now.

                          #ClimateChange

                          quasit@beige.partyQ 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • hex@kolektiva.socialH hex@kolektiva.social

                            I keep seeing the "cars replaced horses" thing related to "AI."

                            People keep comparing "AI" to cars (positively) without thinking about the fact that cars were forced on people (AAA bought up and destroyed tram lines, there were massive protests, etc), and are the primary driver of climate change that is currently on track to make complex human society impossible. Meanwhile, cities that weren't destroyed for cars, or that have reversed most of the damage, are some of the most desirable places to live.

                            Maybe we could take the car analogy as a warning. Maybe it could be a reminder to think about how forcing technology on people against their will can reshape society in a profoundly negative way.

                            The answer for cities has been to right-size transit. Eliminate cars wherever possible, maintain emergency vehicles and mobility aids, and find more efficient alternatives (bikes, trams, metros, and trains) where possible. I feel as though we can extrapolate from the metaphor.

                            We do not have to repeat the mistake of reshaping society around a single, oversimplified, solution in order to benefit a tiny minority. Perhaps we can actually choose the right technologies based on use cases, rather than hype or dogma.

                            Cars didn't replace horses. Cars replaced walkable cities, tram lines and mass transit, and children playing in the streets.

                            "Cars replaced horses" to the benefit of a small group of elite men, at tremendous cost to literally everyone else. When people say, "AI is the new 'cars replacing horses'" they are saying something very specific about their privilege and intentions.

                            assimilateborg@kind.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                            assimilateborg@kind.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                            assimilateborg@kind.social
                            wrote sidst redigeret af
                            #27

                            @Hex I answer to cars replace horses with cars destroyed city centers, replaces trams, replaced cycling, replace walking, replaced the bakery and pub around the corner. cars, cars, cars.
                            Fuck cars, Fuck AI.
                            This also means: cars are useful for some tasks but not for all tasks. AI as well. Do not obligate everyone to use a car for everything. Do not obligate everyone to use AI for everything.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • hex@kolektiva.socialH hex@kolektiva.social

                              I keep seeing the "cars replaced horses" thing related to "AI."

                              People keep comparing "AI" to cars (positively) without thinking about the fact that cars were forced on people (AAA bought up and destroyed tram lines, there were massive protests, etc), and are the primary driver of climate change that is currently on track to make complex human society impossible. Meanwhile, cities that weren't destroyed for cars, or that have reversed most of the damage, are some of the most desirable places to live.

                              Maybe we could take the car analogy as a warning. Maybe it could be a reminder to think about how forcing technology on people against their will can reshape society in a profoundly negative way.

                              The answer for cities has been to right-size transit. Eliminate cars wherever possible, maintain emergency vehicles and mobility aids, and find more efficient alternatives (bikes, trams, metros, and trains) where possible. I feel as though we can extrapolate from the metaphor.

                              We do not have to repeat the mistake of reshaping society around a single, oversimplified, solution in order to benefit a tiny minority. Perhaps we can actually choose the right technologies based on use cases, rather than hype or dogma.

                              Cars didn't replace horses. Cars replaced walkable cities, tram lines and mass transit, and children playing in the streets.

                              "Cars replaced horses" to the benefit of a small group of elite men, at tremendous cost to literally everyone else. When people say, "AI is the new 'cars replacing horses'" they are saying something very specific about their privilege and intentions.

                              paavi@mastodontti.fiP This user is from outside of this forum
                              paavi@mastodontti.fiP This user is from outside of this forum
                              paavi@mastodontti.fi
                              wrote sidst redigeret af
                              #28

                              @Hex Also "bicycles partially replaced horses in certain uses" is more correct and a famine year that resulted in people eating a lot of horses in Baden and Karl Freiherr von Drais thus needing something to make moving around easier than walking the otherwise horsebackridingworthy distances invented a solution to his problem that later led to velocipeds and modern bicycles.
                              That's a bit different than the narrative people cheering the invention nobody really needs and is less useful are pushing

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • hex@kolektiva.socialH hex@kolektiva.social

                                I keep seeing the "cars replaced horses" thing related to "AI."

                                People keep comparing "AI" to cars (positively) without thinking about the fact that cars were forced on people (AAA bought up and destroyed tram lines, there were massive protests, etc), and are the primary driver of climate change that is currently on track to make complex human society impossible. Meanwhile, cities that weren't destroyed for cars, or that have reversed most of the damage, are some of the most desirable places to live.

                                Maybe we could take the car analogy as a warning. Maybe it could be a reminder to think about how forcing technology on people against their will can reshape society in a profoundly negative way.

                                The answer for cities has been to right-size transit. Eliminate cars wherever possible, maintain emergency vehicles and mobility aids, and find more efficient alternatives (bikes, trams, metros, and trains) where possible. I feel as though we can extrapolate from the metaphor.

                                We do not have to repeat the mistake of reshaping society around a single, oversimplified, solution in order to benefit a tiny minority. Perhaps we can actually choose the right technologies based on use cases, rather than hype or dogma.

                                Cars didn't replace horses. Cars replaced walkable cities, tram lines and mass transit, and children playing in the streets.

                                "Cars replaced horses" to the benefit of a small group of elite men, at tremendous cost to literally everyone else. When people say, "AI is the new 'cars replacing horses'" they are saying something very specific about their privilege and intentions.

                                tbortels@infosec.exchangeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                tbortels@infosec.exchangeT This user is from outside of this forum
                                tbortels@infosec.exchange
                                wrote sidst redigeret af
                                #29

                                @Hex

                                I'd add a more explicit point: cars didn't do anything. They are blameless. *People* replaced horses with cars, and they did it out of their own self-interest, not that of society.

                                AI isn't doing a damn thing. People are. And AI doesn't replace humans - it displaces them. Often very poorly. I'd have less of an issue (but still issues) if it was a viable replacement.

                                When you see "AI slop"? That's people who are phoning it in.

                                When you see "AI replaced this call center"? No, some asshole did, and it's a poor replacement.

                                Copyright violations, intellectual theft? People again.

                                And when you see "This AI solved this proof" or made a scientific advancement? Yeah, people again. AI can be a very useful tool when you have smart people prompting and correcting and using the tool - but it's just a tool. Just as the assholes deserve blame, the successes are to the credit of the humans involved.

                                The technology is interesting. But the people pushing it hard? Assholes.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • hex@kolektiva.socialH hex@kolektiva.social

                                  I keep seeing the "cars replaced horses" thing related to "AI."

                                  People keep comparing "AI" to cars (positively) without thinking about the fact that cars were forced on people (AAA bought up and destroyed tram lines, there were massive protests, etc), and are the primary driver of climate change that is currently on track to make complex human society impossible. Meanwhile, cities that weren't destroyed for cars, or that have reversed most of the damage, are some of the most desirable places to live.

                                  Maybe we could take the car analogy as a warning. Maybe it could be a reminder to think about how forcing technology on people against their will can reshape society in a profoundly negative way.

                                  The answer for cities has been to right-size transit. Eliminate cars wherever possible, maintain emergency vehicles and mobility aids, and find more efficient alternatives (bikes, trams, metros, and trains) where possible. I feel as though we can extrapolate from the metaphor.

                                  We do not have to repeat the mistake of reshaping society around a single, oversimplified, solution in order to benefit a tiny minority. Perhaps we can actually choose the right technologies based on use cases, rather than hype or dogma.

                                  Cars didn't replace horses. Cars replaced walkable cities, tram lines and mass transit, and children playing in the streets.

                                  "Cars replaced horses" to the benefit of a small group of elite men, at tremendous cost to literally everyone else. When people say, "AI is the new 'cars replacing horses'" they are saying something very specific about their privilege and intentions.

                                  duckz@mastodon.gamedev.placeD This user is from outside of this forum
                                  duckz@mastodon.gamedev.placeD This user is from outside of this forum
                                  duckz@mastodon.gamedev.place
                                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                                  #30

                                  @Hex just here to say #ClimateTown made an excellent video on the cars being shoved into our throats topic a few months ago and it was top info as always. Delivered with the usual humour and clarity. Highly suggested watch

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • hex@kolektiva.socialH hex@kolektiva.social

                                    I keep seeing the "cars replaced horses" thing related to "AI."

                                    People keep comparing "AI" to cars (positively) without thinking about the fact that cars were forced on people (AAA bought up and destroyed tram lines, there were massive protests, etc), and are the primary driver of climate change that is currently on track to make complex human society impossible. Meanwhile, cities that weren't destroyed for cars, or that have reversed most of the damage, are some of the most desirable places to live.

                                    Maybe we could take the car analogy as a warning. Maybe it could be a reminder to think about how forcing technology on people against their will can reshape society in a profoundly negative way.

                                    The answer for cities has been to right-size transit. Eliminate cars wherever possible, maintain emergency vehicles and mobility aids, and find more efficient alternatives (bikes, trams, metros, and trains) where possible. I feel as though we can extrapolate from the metaphor.

                                    We do not have to repeat the mistake of reshaping society around a single, oversimplified, solution in order to benefit a tiny minority. Perhaps we can actually choose the right technologies based on use cases, rather than hype or dogma.

                                    Cars didn't replace horses. Cars replaced walkable cities, tram lines and mass transit, and children playing in the streets.

                                    "Cars replaced horses" to the benefit of a small group of elite men, at tremendous cost to literally everyone else. When people say, "AI is the new 'cars replacing horses'" they are saying something very specific about their privilege and intentions.

                                    pentup@kinkycats.orgP This user is from outside of this forum
                                    pentup@kinkycats.orgP This user is from outside of this forum
                                    pentup@kinkycats.org
                                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                                    #31

                                    @Hex Also, in this analogy, are we supposed to be the horses?!

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                                    • hex@kolektiva.socialH hex@kolektiva.social

                                      I keep seeing the "cars replaced horses" thing related to "AI."

                                      People keep comparing "AI" to cars (positively) without thinking about the fact that cars were forced on people (AAA bought up and destroyed tram lines, there were massive protests, etc), and are the primary driver of climate change that is currently on track to make complex human society impossible. Meanwhile, cities that weren't destroyed for cars, or that have reversed most of the damage, are some of the most desirable places to live.

                                      Maybe we could take the car analogy as a warning. Maybe it could be a reminder to think about how forcing technology on people against their will can reshape society in a profoundly negative way.

                                      The answer for cities has been to right-size transit. Eliminate cars wherever possible, maintain emergency vehicles and mobility aids, and find more efficient alternatives (bikes, trams, metros, and trains) where possible. I feel as though we can extrapolate from the metaphor.

                                      We do not have to repeat the mistake of reshaping society around a single, oversimplified, solution in order to benefit a tiny minority. Perhaps we can actually choose the right technologies based on use cases, rather than hype or dogma.

                                      Cars didn't replace horses. Cars replaced walkable cities, tram lines and mass transit, and children playing in the streets.

                                      "Cars replaced horses" to the benefit of a small group of elite men, at tremendous cost to literally everyone else. When people say, "AI is the new 'cars replacing horses'" they are saying something very specific about their privilege and intentions.

                                      hc@mastodon.africaH This user is from outside of this forum
                                      hc@mastodon.africaH This user is from outside of this forum
                                      hc@mastodon.africa
                                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                                      #32

                                      @Hex You wrote "on track to make complex human society impossible"? When I searched for worst case scenarios it never stated anything that would have that consequence and I looked for runaway greenhouse effect, tipping points, permafrost, methane, venus, max ambient temperature for sweat to cool ...

                                      AlI I read suggests that igniting even all fossil fuel reserves would not be catastrophic (as in extinction event) to humanity and most certainly not to Earth.

                                      So what should I read to convince me otherwise, if I may ask?

                                      hex@kolektiva.socialH 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • alonealastalovedalongthe@toot.cafeA alonealastalovedalongthe@toot.cafe

                                        @Hex Also while horses could not be reasonably, ethically nor hygenically scaled to industrialize with cities past a certain point (hence mass transit), it is easy to forget horses are superior to Teslas.

                                        1. Horses are so reliable when cared for and trained that trail riding tourism is a stable relatively-safe global industry. Trail rides are often over rugged, chaotic terrain too.

                                        2. If you drive a horse drunk, or fall asleep at the reigns a horse has a brain so you *probably won't die.

                                        martinvermeer@fediscience.orgM This user is from outside of this forum
                                        martinvermeer@fediscience.orgM This user is from outside of this forum
                                        martinvermeer@fediscience.org
                                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                                        #33

                                        @Alonealastalovedalongthe @Hex

                                        *reins

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • hex@kolektiva.socialH hex@kolektiva.social

                                          I keep seeing the "cars replaced horses" thing related to "AI."

                                          People keep comparing "AI" to cars (positively) without thinking about the fact that cars were forced on people (AAA bought up and destroyed tram lines, there were massive protests, etc), and are the primary driver of climate change that is currently on track to make complex human society impossible. Meanwhile, cities that weren't destroyed for cars, or that have reversed most of the damage, are some of the most desirable places to live.

                                          Maybe we could take the car analogy as a warning. Maybe it could be a reminder to think about how forcing technology on people against their will can reshape society in a profoundly negative way.

                                          The answer for cities has been to right-size transit. Eliminate cars wherever possible, maintain emergency vehicles and mobility aids, and find more efficient alternatives (bikes, trams, metros, and trains) where possible. I feel as though we can extrapolate from the metaphor.

                                          We do not have to repeat the mistake of reshaping society around a single, oversimplified, solution in order to benefit a tiny minority. Perhaps we can actually choose the right technologies based on use cases, rather than hype or dogma.

                                          Cars didn't replace horses. Cars replaced walkable cities, tram lines and mass transit, and children playing in the streets.

                                          "Cars replaced horses" to the benefit of a small group of elite men, at tremendous cost to literally everyone else. When people say, "AI is the new 'cars replacing horses'" they are saying something very specific about their privilege and intentions.

                                          jdw@mathstodon.xyzJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                          jdw@mathstodon.xyzJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                          jdw@mathstodon.xyz
                                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                                          #34

                                          @Hex I do think the analogy is a good one but I don't think it's a good narrative because the vast majority of people still sees cars as a good thing, despite the negative aspects you mention.

                                          geonz@mathstodon.xyzG 1 Reply Last reply
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