If you believe nonviolent protest is more effective, then simply advocate for it.
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@dresstokilt @Robo105 @anolandria It seems to me at least the elections will be the pivotal moment. They're going to try some bullshit and it is extremely important how many people see that it is bullshit, how many people believe the regime and how many people go "Well, who can really tell?" and just do nothing - because people doing nothing is enough for Trump to win.
I can see the argument for keeping one's hands clean, to get mired in the swamp of "Maybe the crackdown was justified, maybe it wasn't" as little as possible, to keep as many people as possible clear-headed about what is happening and have them on your side when the time comes. Moments like Good's killing show that it is still possible to get through to people, to have a majority consensus of This Was Murder.
@Teskariel @dresstokilt @anolandria I would add that getting more and more people to see ICE for what it is will harden the feelings against trump and ice
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@Robo105 @anolandria I don't think you understand - the administration is going to use martial law as a scalpel, not a club. They're going to shut down major cities in swing states in November on election day in order to maintain their hold in the Senate and claim governorships. There have been no pretexts whatsoever for the times they've deployed troops in cities, they manufacture that after the fact. They always do. Those were dry runs and they worked perfectly.
@dresstokilt
This is what you fear *may* happen. It's not a prediction. Others will have different thoughts and see different possibilities. Best to listen to each other, keeping in mind that no-one really knows exactly what will happen. Not knowing is very uncomfortable; that's the way things are right now. #OpenMind #Logic #CriticalThinkingCC to: @Robo105 @anolandria
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@Robo105 @anolandria Tell that to the folks in Waco or the Branch Davidians. Or the guys on Ruby Ridge.
The government can and will do whatever it wants, when it wants. They have drones, long distance guns and bombs. They can and will use them on the American people.
I get being pacifist. I try to be. That privalege is swiftly coming to an end for the majority of us. I can't stand by and watch my people die anymore.@HappyCrow13 @Robo105 Well said.
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@Robo105 @anolandria if they needed a dead ICE thug for an excuse, do you not think they would kill one??? These nazis are playing a zero-sum game, while you are insisting on some sort of cooperation — this is a losing strategy.
@wbftw @Robo105 They absolutely would.
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@EndicottAuthor @anolandria how many fascist regimes has nonviolent protest toppled?
Nonviolent protest only ever works when there is a credible threat of actual violence. When those "ceding power" can point to a nonviolent movement as the reason. MLK isn't effective without the specter of Malcom X.
You can't nonviolent your way out of violence.
@dresstokilt @EndicottAuthor This is exactly right.
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@anolandria Also: the statement "They're looking for an excuse to do X" is an implicit admission that the decision has already been made. We can only control the "when."
As you said, it's only function can be to reverse victim and offender by blaming the victim for inducing the inevitable. It does conveniently obscure the fact that we should be upset by someone looking for "an excuse."
@bensondynamics this is an outstanding point.
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@HappyCrow13 @anolandria Waco and davidians had weapons and lost. Black panthers had weapons and lost. Violence eg shooting police is what Trump needs to happen what he is trying to provoke.
@Robo105 @anolandria Because the majority pushed them back down.
Not saying go out and shoot up cops I'm saying defend yourself and others by any means necessary, stop telling people to not fight back. Violence is an unfortunate necessity to keep yourself and others safe.
Again, they don't need an excuse to kill you. Why make it easier by accepting dying? Accepting other deaths as "necessary"?Total Pacifism is a privilege. I'll keep saying it until folks really get it.
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If you believe nonviolent protest is more effective, then simply advocate for it. The "don't give them an excuse" line is disingenuous victim blaming. They make shit up. We see it every single day, so please stop embarrassing yourself.
"Our behavior doesn’t drive theirs."
@anolandria this is so so so true, and we see it play out constantly in right wing media too. My leftist peers will be like "but the media will construe it in this way" like "yeah and they do that anyway regardless!"
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@anolandria this is so so so true, and we see it play out constantly in right wing media too. My leftist peers will be like "but the media will construe it in this way" like "yeah and they do that anyway regardless!"
@maize if they need something happen, they will make it happen. It's that simple. "Looking for an excuse" admits they already made up their mind and it's just a matter of when, not if.
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If you believe nonviolent protest is more effective, then simply advocate for it. The "don't give them an excuse" line is disingenuous victim blaming. They make shit up. We see it every single day, so please stop embarrassing yourself.
"Our behavior doesn’t drive theirs."
@anolandria This. 1000 times.
They don’t need to find an ‘excuse’, and they aren’t waiting for anyone to give them one. If they think they need an excuse - as you said - they just make shit up.
Their acts are their acts and their responsibility. Yours are yours.
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