It is becoming increasingly clear to me that one thing Canada *desperately* needs is domestic payment processing capability that's independent of the US, which means no Mastercard, no VISA, no AmEx, no PayPal.
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It is becoming increasingly clear to me that one thing Canada *desperately* needs is domestic payment processing capability that's independent of the US, which means no Mastercard, no VISA, no AmEx, no PayPal.
If the US decides to limit those platforms, our ability to do business with the rest of the world is severely curtailed.
Not only should the sale of Moneris be blocked, the infrastructure it depends on needs to be replaced... unless the plan is to use the revenue from the sale to build a solution that works with the rest of the world.
Look up Krugman on Brazil's Pix.
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@santi We have Interac for a low cost national system, but if our economic independence from the US is how we secure our future, then we need a system that works internationally for both trade and tourism. I want to be able to buy some cool thing from a website in Brazil with my payment card that works equally well here, and in Europe, all without the risk if a deranged narcissist being able to say "cut those people out of the system."
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It is becoming increasingly clear to me that one thing Canada *desperately* needs is domestic payment processing capability that's independent of the US, which means no Mastercard, no VISA, no AmEx, no PayPal.
If the US decides to limit those platforms, our ability to do business with the rest of the world is severely curtailed.
Not only should the sale of Moneris be blocked, the infrastructure it depends on needs to be replaced... unless the plan is to use the revenue from the sale to build a solution that works with the rest of the world.
@alan ding ding ding - we have a winner!
No one bats an eye when the government owns and operates (or contracts out operation of) infrastructure like electrical transmission lines, postal services, roads, trains, airports, water supplies, and sewage processing.
I see no good reason why the digital transfer of money - which is ubiquitous in modern life - shouldn't be considered national infrastructure. It will, obviously, pay for itself.
It seems obvious that countries would benefit from payment sovereignty.
Nationalize it. Contract out the operation to private companies if desired.
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@harold Sure, but if I want to pay for my hotel in, say Paris, Interac is about as useful as pre-Euro Francs.
@alan Which is a bit strange as Canadian banks have agreements with other banks around the world. I can use an ATM with my Scotiabank card fee-free in many countries:
https://www.scotiabank.com/ca/en/personal/ways-to-bank/manage-accounts/global-atm-alliance.html
Using debit cards in other countries should not be difficult for Canadians
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@alan Which is a bit strange as Canadian banks have agreements with other banks around the world. I can use an ATM with my Scotiabank card fee-free in many countries:
https://www.scotiabank.com/ca/en/personal/ways-to-bank/manage-accounts/global-atm-alliance.html
Using debit cards in other countries should not be difficult for Canadians
@harold Exactly. As I noted in a different sub-thread, all the protocols are well-defined. It wouldn't take a Herculean effort to build systems that took the credit networks out as well.
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It is becoming increasingly clear to me that one thing Canada *desperately* needs is domestic payment processing capability that's independent of the US, which means no Mastercard, no VISA, no AmEx, no PayPal.
If the US decides to limit those platforms, our ability to do business with the rest of the world is severely curtailed.
Not only should the sale of Moneris be blocked, the infrastructure it depends on needs to be replaced... unless the plan is to use the revenue from the sale to build a solution that works with the rest of the world.
@alan Have a look at Wero?
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@alan Have a look at Wero?
@martinlentink Yes, like that, except Canadian, with interoperability with Wero and similar non-US systems throughout the world. distributed rather than centralized.
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It is becoming increasingly clear to me that one thing Canada *desperately* needs is domestic payment processing capability that's independent of the US, which means no Mastercard, no VISA, no AmEx, no PayPal.
If the US decides to limit those platforms, our ability to do business with the rest of the world is severely curtailed.
Not only should the sale of Moneris be blocked, the infrastructure it depends on needs to be replaced... unless the plan is to use the revenue from the sale to build a solution that works with the rest of the world.
Europe is replacing visa and MasterCard and PayPal with a system that has no fees.
VISA and the rest have been scraping every transaction, like a grater on cheese, in Europe, now European citizens are going save billions. Actual billions.
Europe just gave everyone a raise. And American banks a reduction.
Canada should join Europe now, sooner.
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Europe is replacing visa and MasterCard and PayPal with a system that has no fees.
VISA and the rest have been scraping every transaction, like a grater on cheese, in Europe, now European citizens are going save billions. Actual billions.
Europe just gave everyone a raise. And American banks a reduction.
Canada should join Europe now, sooner.
All Canada needs to do is put in legislation to ensure that Interac remains Canadian; require that it's infrastructure and governance are 100% Canadian, as well as prohibiting any transaction data from being exported. Then allow Canadian financial institutions to issue credit products that utilise the Interac network (they sort of already do as anyone with over draft protection and in many cases lines of credit can utilise those with Interac)
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All Canada needs to do is put in legislation to ensure that Interac remains Canadian; require that it's infrastructure and governance are 100% Canadian, as well as prohibiting any transaction data from being exported. Then allow Canadian financial institutions to issue credit products that utilise the Interac network (they sort of already do as anyone with over draft protection and in many cases lines of credit can utilise those with Interac)
I like the European solution with no fees and no payment to banks.
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I like the European solution with no fees and no payment to banks.
A no fee and not involving banks is the gold standard but right now I think separating our financial systems from the US should be the top priority
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I'm hoping on joining the EU, and getting the Euro, and ending the dollar and No Longer paying banks, in the short term.
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All Canada needs to do is put in legislation to ensure that Interac remains Canadian; require that it's infrastructure and governance are 100% Canadian, as well as prohibiting any transaction data from being exported. Then allow Canadian financial institutions to issue credit products that utilise the Interac network (they sort of already do as anyone with over draft protection and in many cases lines of credit can utilise those with Interac)
@RantingCanuck @kevinrns And again, if I want to use that instrument to book a hotel in France, what happens? If someone in Europe wants to book a hotel in Canada, what happens?
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@RantingCanuck @kevinrns And again, if I want to use that instrument to book a hotel in France, what happens? If someone in Europe wants to book a hotel in Canada, what happens?
Any international payment system that is under the jurisdiction of one nation (or bloc) is always going to represent a risk for Canada to rely on. The best option is to maintain our own domestic national system with international agreements to allow for wider usage. This would mean we could only ever be cut off from a single entity, and even then only by our own choice or by the choice of that entity, without a 3rd party playing any role.
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Any international payment system that is under the jurisdiction of one nation (or bloc) is always going to represent a risk for Canada to rely on. The best option is to maintain our own domestic national system with international agreements to allow for wider usage. This would mean we could only ever be cut off from a single entity, and even then only by our own choice or by the choice of that entity, without a 3rd party playing any role.
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@RantingCanuck @kevinrns And again, if I want to use that instrument to book a hotel in France, what happens? If someone in Europe wants to book a hotel in Canada, what happens?
Just what happens when any member uses it. Canada should join the EU.
Let's sort this out.
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Even if Canada started negotiations with the EU on joining tomorrow it would still require agreement on all 33 accession chapters plus the agreement of all 27 existing EU members and a referendum in Canada because constitutional amendments would be required.
That process would take years, realistically probably closer to a decade, and we as a nation simply cannot wait that long to separate ourselves from the US. Thus in the meantime we need to continue proceeding as a singular entity.
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Even if Canada started negotiations with the EU on joining tomorrow it would still require agreement on all 33 accession chapters plus the agreement of all 27 existing EU members and a referendum in Canada because constitutional amendments would be required.
That process would take years, realistically probably closer to a decade, and we as a nation simply cannot wait that long to separate ourselves from the US. Thus in the meantime we need to continue proceeding as a singular entity.
Yes, that's correct. ASAP is not next week. And yes joining is the goal.
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It is becoming increasingly clear to me that one thing Canada *desperately* needs is domestic payment processing capability that's independent of the US, which means no Mastercard, no VISA, no AmEx, no PayPal.
If the US decides to limit those platforms, our ability to do business with the rest of the world is severely curtailed.
Not only should the sale of Moneris be blocked, the infrastructure it depends on needs to be replaced... unless the plan is to use the revenue from the sale to build a solution that works with the rest of the world.
@alan I’ve already written my bank, one involved in the sale, that I’ll move my investments elsewhere if the sale goes through. And wrote to my MP. Lots of Canadians should do the same and write.
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All Canada needs to do is put in legislation to ensure that Interac remains Canadian; require that it's infrastructure and governance are 100% Canadian, as well as prohibiting any transaction data from being exported. Then allow Canadian financial institutions to issue credit products that utilise the Interac network (they sort of already do as anyone with over draft protection and in many cases lines of credit can utilise those with Interac)
Sure, until the Euro.
