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  3. Researchers just mathematically proved that AI can't recursively self-improve its way to superintelligence.

Researchers just mathematically proved that AI can't recursively self-improve its way to superintelligence.

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  • devsimsek@universeodon.comD devsimsek@universeodon.com

    Researchers just mathematically proved that AI can't recursively self-improve its way to superintelligence.

    Not "we think it's unlikely." Not "it seems hard." Formally proved.

    The model doesn't climb toward AGI — it slowly forgets what reality looks like. They call it model collapse. The math calls it inevitable.
    I wrote about it 👇

    https://smsk.dev/2026/04/26/ai-cannot-self-improve-and-math-behind-proves-it/

    #AI #MachineLearning #LLM #Research

    quantensalat@scicomm.xyzQ This user is from outside of this forum
    quantensalat@scicomm.xyzQ This user is from outside of this forum
    quantensalat@scicomm.xyz
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #2

    @devsimsek Is that a thing people believe, that LLMs generate themselves towards the singularity simply by eating their own output and no other feedback?

    musicman@mastodon.socialM drwho@masto.hackers.townD dpiponi@mathstodon.xyzD wronglang@bayes.clubW 4 Replies Last reply
    0
    • devsimsek@universeodon.comD devsimsek@universeodon.com

      Researchers just mathematically proved that AI can't recursively self-improve its way to superintelligence.

      Not "we think it's unlikely." Not "it seems hard." Formally proved.

      The model doesn't climb toward AGI — it slowly forgets what reality looks like. They call it model collapse. The math calls it inevitable.
      I wrote about it 👇

      https://smsk.dev/2026/04/26/ai-cannot-self-improve-and-math-behind-proves-it/

      #AI #MachineLearning #LLM #Research

      grob@mstdn.socialG This user is from outside of this forum
      grob@mstdn.socialG This user is from outside of this forum
      grob@mstdn.social
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #3

      @devsimsek here's a video what recursive model collapse looks like. Warning: I found it visually disturbing without being able to word why exactly.

      https://manganiello.eu/objects/6f0da731-81ce-46fe-a67b-5c4dbe2d27e0

      I am also not sure whether the video is illustrating the exact same mathematical arguments from OP, but certainly related.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • devsimsek@universeodon.comD devsimsek@universeodon.com

        Researchers just mathematically proved that AI can't recursively self-improve its way to superintelligence.

        Not "we think it's unlikely." Not "it seems hard." Formally proved.

        The model doesn't climb toward AGI — it slowly forgets what reality looks like. They call it model collapse. The math calls it inevitable.
        I wrote about it 👇

        https://smsk.dev/2026/04/26/ai-cannot-self-improve-and-math-behind-proves-it/

        #AI #MachineLearning #LLM #Research

        jargoggles@kolektiva.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
        jargoggles@kolektiva.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
        jargoggles@kolektiva.social
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #4

        @devsimsek
        I put my butt on the copier and now I'm going to keep feeding copies of that picture into it until it prints out the Mona Lisa.

        1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • quantensalat@scicomm.xyzQ quantensalat@scicomm.xyz

          @devsimsek Is that a thing people believe, that LLMs generate themselves towards the singularity simply by eating their own output and no other feedback?

          musicman@mastodon.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
          musicman@mastodon.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
          musicman@mastodon.social
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #5

          @Quantensalat @devsimsek tech bros have been claiming their AIs are alive for years so if the average person who knows nothing about computers thinks we already have AGI, who can really blame them. Anthropic all but claims to have invented Terminator.

          Maybe something like this will stop the panic.

          Which is not to say people shouldn't be concerned in general and very specifically about environmental impacts

          quantensalat@scicomm.xyzQ M 2 Replies Last reply
          0
          • devsimsek@universeodon.comD devsimsek@universeodon.com

            Researchers just mathematically proved that AI can't recursively self-improve its way to superintelligence.

            Not "we think it's unlikely." Not "it seems hard." Formally proved.

            The model doesn't climb toward AGI — it slowly forgets what reality looks like. They call it model collapse. The math calls it inevitable.
            I wrote about it 👇

            https://smsk.dev/2026/04/26/ai-cannot-self-improve-and-math-behind-proves-it/

            #AI #MachineLearning #LLM #Research

            keldrim@meow.socialK This user is from outside of this forum
            keldrim@meow.socialK This user is from outside of this forum
            keldrim@meow.social
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #6

            @devsimsek The good news about this, when stuff explodes a lot idiots will loose a lot money and prove even further how stupid this bubble is.

            drwho@masto.hackers.townD 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • devsimsek@universeodon.comD devsimsek@universeodon.com

              Researchers just mathematically proved that AI can't recursively self-improve its way to superintelligence.

              Not "we think it's unlikely." Not "it seems hard." Formally proved.

              The model doesn't climb toward AGI — it slowly forgets what reality looks like. They call it model collapse. The math calls it inevitable.
              I wrote about it 👇

              https://smsk.dev/2026/04/26/ai-cannot-self-improve-and-math-behind-proves-it/

              #AI #MachineLearning #LLM #Research

              kieraaa@mastodon.artK This user is from outside of this forum
              kieraaa@mastodon.artK This user is from outside of this forum
              kieraaa@mastodon.art
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #7

              @devsimsek if i eat my own shit repeatedly will i become a singularity

              devsimsek@universeodon.comD 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • quantensalat@scicomm.xyzQ quantensalat@scicomm.xyz

                @devsimsek Is that a thing people believe, that LLMs generate themselves towards the singularity simply by eating their own output and no other feedback?

                drwho@masto.hackers.townD This user is from outside of this forum
                drwho@masto.hackers.townD This user is from outside of this forum
                drwho@masto.hackers.town
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #8

                @Quantensalat @devsimsek Yes.

                They have also never had a machine crash because a recursive operation overran the stack or used up all the memory.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • keldrim@meow.socialK keldrim@meow.social

                  @devsimsek The good news about this, when stuff explodes a lot idiots will loose a lot money and prove even further how stupid this bubble is.

                  drwho@masto.hackers.townD This user is from outside of this forum
                  drwho@masto.hackers.townD This user is from outside of this forum
                  drwho@masto.hackers.town
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #9

                  @Keldrim @devsimsek But we'll still be out of jobs.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • musicman@mastodon.socialM musicman@mastodon.social

                    @Quantensalat @devsimsek tech bros have been claiming their AIs are alive for years so if the average person who knows nothing about computers thinks we already have AGI, who can really blame them. Anthropic all but claims to have invented Terminator.

                    Maybe something like this will stop the panic.

                    Which is not to say people shouldn't be concerned in general and very specifically about environmental impacts

                    quantensalat@scicomm.xyzQ This user is from outside of this forum
                    quantensalat@scicomm.xyzQ This user is from outside of this forum
                    quantensalat@scicomm.xyz
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #10

                    @musicman @devsimsek As with all mathematical theorems, there's probably a not too far-fetched loophole circumventing some of their assumptions, doesn't mean skynet is becoming self-aware any time soon once that is the case.

                    wronglang@bayes.clubW 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • devsimsek@universeodon.comD devsimsek@universeodon.com

                      Researchers just mathematically proved that AI can't recursively self-improve its way to superintelligence.

                      Not "we think it's unlikely." Not "it seems hard." Formally proved.

                      The model doesn't climb toward AGI — it slowly forgets what reality looks like. They call it model collapse. The math calls it inevitable.
                      I wrote about it 👇

                      https://smsk.dev/2026/04/26/ai-cannot-self-improve-and-math-behind-proves-it/

                      #AI #MachineLearning #LLM #Research

                      yth@mstdn.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                      yth@mstdn.socialY This user is from outside of this forum
                      yth@mstdn.social
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #11

                      @devsimsek Inbreeding is never a good idea that seems quite intuitive doesn’t it?

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • devsimsek@universeodon.comD devsimsek@universeodon.com

                        Researchers just mathematically proved that AI can't recursively self-improve its way to superintelligence.

                        Not "we think it's unlikely." Not "it seems hard." Formally proved.

                        The model doesn't climb toward AGI — it slowly forgets what reality looks like. They call it model collapse. The math calls it inevitable.
                        I wrote about it 👇

                        https://smsk.dev/2026/04/26/ai-cannot-self-improve-and-math-behind-proves-it/

                        #AI #MachineLearning #LLM #Research

                        thearrivingdeparture@mastodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                        thearrivingdeparture@mastodon.socialT This user is from outside of this forum
                        thearrivingdeparture@mastodon.social
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #12

                        @devsimsek The paper doesn't prove that. It proves that "if the proportion of exogenous, externally grounded signal vanishes asymptotically, the system undergoes degenerative dynamics."
                        The necessary asymptotic condition is not met in real use.

                        bifouba@kolektiva.socialB 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • devsimsek@universeodon.comD devsimsek@universeodon.com

                          Researchers just mathematically proved that AI can't recursively self-improve its way to superintelligence.

                          Not "we think it's unlikely." Not "it seems hard." Formally proved.

                          The model doesn't climb toward AGI — it slowly forgets what reality looks like. They call it model collapse. The math calls it inevitable.
                          I wrote about it 👇

                          https://smsk.dev/2026/04/26/ai-cannot-self-improve-and-math-behind-proves-it/

                          #AI #MachineLearning #LLM #Research

                          L This user is from outside of this forum
                          L This user is from outside of this forum
                          laalsaas@c3d2.social
                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                          #13

                          @devsimsek this only means that LLMs can't provide their own training data, right? Could they still "invent" new algorithms, that make more of the existing data?

                          devsimsek@universeodon.comD 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • devsimsek@universeodon.comD devsimsek@universeodon.com

                            Researchers just mathematically proved that AI can't recursively self-improve its way to superintelligence.

                            Not "we think it's unlikely." Not "it seems hard." Formally proved.

                            The model doesn't climb toward AGI — it slowly forgets what reality looks like. They call it model collapse. The math calls it inevitable.
                            I wrote about it 👇

                            https://smsk.dev/2026/04/26/ai-cannot-self-improve-and-math-behind-proves-it/

                            #AI #MachineLearning #LLM #Research

                            tallsimon@mstdn.caT This user is from outside of this forum
                            tallsimon@mstdn.caT This user is from outside of this forum
                            tallsimon@mstdn.ca
                            wrote sidst redigeret af
                            #14

                            @devsimsek Chatting with U Toronto AI profs 6, 7 years ago, I posed a problem.

                            "Teach your AI everything about whole, integer, rational and real numbers. Ask it to solve a problem that requires it to invent complex numbers."

                            Reply: "Oh... It doesn't work that way."

                            I knew that, but the ability to frame your observations as the product of a higher order system is IMHO key to what we call "intelligence". Collecting evidence that can disprove your hypothesis is science.

                            LLM approaches are neither, in a very expensive way.

                            I'll have to read the paper, though. I'm looking forward to the AI equivalent of Goedel's Theorem that shuts down this annoying iteration of the field.

                            lerxst@az.socialL 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • devsimsek@universeodon.comD devsimsek@universeodon.com

                              Researchers just mathematically proved that AI can't recursively self-improve its way to superintelligence.

                              Not "we think it's unlikely." Not "it seems hard." Formally proved.

                              The model doesn't climb toward AGI — it slowly forgets what reality looks like. They call it model collapse. The math calls it inevitable.
                              I wrote about it 👇

                              https://smsk.dev/2026/04/26/ai-cannot-self-improve-and-math-behind-proves-it/

                              #AI #MachineLearning #LLM #Research

                              mccrankyface@beige.partyM This user is from outside of this forum
                              mccrankyface@beige.partyM This user is from outside of this forum
                              mccrankyface@beige.party
                              wrote sidst redigeret af
                              #15

                              @devsimsek

                              "The curse of recursion" or, as I've been calling it for a while now, "a feedback loop of shit."

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • devsimsek@universeodon.comD devsimsek@universeodon.com

                                Researchers just mathematically proved that AI can't recursively self-improve its way to superintelligence.

                                Not "we think it's unlikely." Not "it seems hard." Formally proved.

                                The model doesn't climb toward AGI — it slowly forgets what reality looks like. They call it model collapse. The math calls it inevitable.
                                I wrote about it 👇

                                https://smsk.dev/2026/04/26/ai-cannot-self-improve-and-math-behind-proves-it/

                                #AI #MachineLearning #LLM #Research

                                joblakely@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                joblakely@mastodon.socialJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                joblakely@mastodon.social
                                wrote sidst redigeret af
                                #16

                                @devsimsek
                                This is great. I’ve been saying same since before it was conceived, but I expected it on the heels of Cambridge Analytica scandal & techbros desire to use it as a Maxwell’s Demon. If these AI developers cared about their product, they would be funding & not cutting research, sciences, the arts, quality free education, ensuring diversity of experience & insight. But they are going out of their way to destroy their own models with falsehoods of every kind.
                                They & It lack discernment.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • devsimsek@universeodon.comD devsimsek@universeodon.com

                                  Researchers just mathematically proved that AI can't recursively self-improve its way to superintelligence.

                                  Not "we think it's unlikely." Not "it seems hard." Formally proved.

                                  The model doesn't climb toward AGI — it slowly forgets what reality looks like. They call it model collapse. The math calls it inevitable.
                                  I wrote about it 👇

                                  https://smsk.dev/2026/04/26/ai-cannot-self-improve-and-math-behind-proves-it/

                                  #AI #MachineLearning #LLM #Research

                                  twit_terrorist@mastodont.catT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  twit_terrorist@mastodont.catT This user is from outside of this forum
                                  twit_terrorist@mastodont.cat
                                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                                  #17

                                  @devsimsek What should we trust, then? Researchers, or LinkedIn Unemployed AI Ambassadors?

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • devsimsek@universeodon.comD devsimsek@universeodon.com

                                    Researchers just mathematically proved that AI can't recursively self-improve its way to superintelligence.

                                    Not "we think it's unlikely." Not "it seems hard." Formally proved.

                                    The model doesn't climb toward AGI — it slowly forgets what reality looks like. They call it model collapse. The math calls it inevitable.
                                    I wrote about it 👇

                                    https://smsk.dev/2026/04/26/ai-cannot-self-improve-and-math-behind-proves-it/

                                    #AI #MachineLearning #LLM #Research

                                    noplasticshower@infosec.exchangeN This user is from outside of this forum
                                    noplasticshower@infosec.exchangeN This user is from outside of this forum
                                    noplasticshower@infosec.exchange
                                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                                    #18

                                    @devsimsek also see https://berryvilleiml.com/2026/01/10/recursive-pollution-and-model-collapse-are-not-the-same/

                                    This is part of a long running #ML research thread with big #MLsec impact

                                    devsimsek@universeodon.comD 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • devsimsek@universeodon.comD devsimsek@universeodon.com

                                      Researchers just mathematically proved that AI can't recursively self-improve its way to superintelligence.

                                      Not "we think it's unlikely." Not "it seems hard." Formally proved.

                                      The model doesn't climb toward AGI — it slowly forgets what reality looks like. They call it model collapse. The math calls it inevitable.
                                      I wrote about it 👇

                                      https://smsk.dev/2026/04/26/ai-cannot-self-improve-and-math-behind-proves-it/

                                      #AI #MachineLearning #LLM #Research

                                      anthk@neopaquita.esA This user is from outside of this forum
                                      anthk@neopaquita.esA This user is from outside of this forum
                                      anthk@neopaquita.es
                                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                                      #19

                                      @devsimsek I said this a few years ago, and I am no
                                      Matematician. Simple combinatorics and discrete math
                                      over sets will tell you that.

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • devsimsek@universeodon.comD devsimsek@universeodon.com

                                        Researchers just mathematically proved that AI can't recursively self-improve its way to superintelligence.

                                        Not "we think it's unlikely." Not "it seems hard." Formally proved.

                                        The model doesn't climb toward AGI — it slowly forgets what reality looks like. They call it model collapse. The math calls it inevitable.
                                        I wrote about it 👇

                                        https://smsk.dev/2026/04/26/ai-cannot-self-improve-and-math-behind-proves-it/

                                        #AI #MachineLearning #LLM #Research

                                        lunadragofelis@void.lgbtL This user is from outside of this forum
                                        lunadragofelis@void.lgbtL This user is from outside of this forum
                                        lunadragofelis@void.lgbt
                                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                                        #20
                                        @devsimsek I think AGI and self-improvement is possible. But definitely not with the technology (neural LLMs) that is being marketed as "AI" today.

                                        I think that AGI needs to be able to think logically.
                                        vanuphantom@zug.networkV A 2 Replies Last reply
                                        0
                                        • lunadragofelis@void.lgbtL lunadragofelis@void.lgbt
                                          @devsimsek I think AGI and self-improvement is possible. But definitely not with the technology (neural LLMs) that is being marketed as "AI" today.

                                          I think that AGI needs to be able to think logically.
                                          vanuphantom@zug.networkV This user is from outside of this forum
                                          vanuphantom@zug.networkV This user is from outside of this forum
                                          vanuphantom@zug.network
                                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                                          #21

                                          @LunaDragofelis
                                          @devsimsek ^ this tbh. The single-minded focus on scaling LLMs is seemingly caused by parts of the AI crowd being hammers that view every problem as a nail.

                                          The path to better products will involve many different technologies being glued together.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
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