Saying that you do not want GenAI in the #books you read, the things you watch or the games you play is an understandable and NORMAL position.
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and bring back the people who make handwritten copies, stop guttenberg...
@TheOneSwit As @berniethewordsmith wrote »And please spare me with the "both sides" argument. Because one of them is trying to force feed things to the other.« Can only speak for myself. But I don't want LLMs to be forbidden. It's rather, that I simply am not interested in them. Yet it is I who can barely visit two websites, without an LLM-chatbot bothering me or an unannounced (!) synchronous and bad audiotranslation opening, which I would rather have liked to enjoy in its original tone etc.
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@TheOneSwit As @berniethewordsmith wrote »And please spare me with the "both sides" argument. Because one of them is trying to force feed things to the other.« Can only speak for myself. But I don't want LLMs to be forbidden. It's rather, that I simply am not interested in them. Yet it is I who can barely visit two websites, without an LLM-chatbot bothering me or an unannounced (!) synchronous and bad audiotranslation opening, which I would rather have liked to enjoy in its original tone etc.
️@TheOneSwit This hole shit isn't about me, wishing to shot AI (and Gutenbergs Bookpress) in general down. It is rather the other way around with AI trying to force (!) itself into my life. If others want to use it: fine! But I don't see why I either have to justify my disinterest in AI or have to accept a portrayal as a backwards leaning technophobe (like your post tried to do with those who simply and for whatever reasons aren't hyping AI like the rest of Silicon Valley.
@berniethewordsmith -
@TheOneSwit This hole shit isn't about me, wishing to shot AI (and Gutenbergs Bookpress) in general down. It is rather the other way around with AI trying to force (!) itself into my life. If others want to use it: fine! But I don't see why I either have to justify my disinterest in AI or have to accept a portrayal as a backwards leaning technophobe (like your post tried to do with those who simply and for whatever reasons aren't hyping AI like the rest of Silicon Valley.
@berniethewordsmithso much different points. I dont like how genAI or LLMs are used, i dont like that billionaires decide how they are used. I dont like that they owe them. I dont like them everywhere, i dont like how much water they use, i dont like how bad they are, i dont like how much cars we use, i dont like trump, i dont like....
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This is Mastodon. There is people here that can install GotoSocial in a smart oven toaster and then proceed to launch it in low orbit just for fun. Please stop making allusions to technophobia. It's irritating and disrespectful
@berniethewordsmith
definitely no lack of technical ability around these parts... #antiai -
Saying that you do not want GenAI in the #books you read, the things you watch or the games you play is an understandable and NORMAL position. Maybe they have ethical concerns, maybe they love their artist homies. Maybe they don't like the bland garbage that AI generates. Stop framing this like an horde of neoluddites is starting the Butlerian Jihad (would be fun doh) just because they do not want to follow a romance autor who has a computer shitting novels instead of writing them herself.
@berniethewordsmith AI generated stuff is stealing ideas from others
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Saying that you do not want GenAI in the #books you read, the things you watch or the games you play is an understandable and NORMAL position. Maybe they have ethical concerns, maybe they love their artist homies. Maybe they don't like the bland garbage that AI generates. Stop framing this like an horde of neoluddites is starting the Butlerian Jihad (would be fun doh) just because they do not want to follow a romance autor who has a computer shitting novels instead of writing them herself.
@berniethewordsmith
If a person can't be bothered to write it, why should I read it?Soon they will have to invent an artificial AI User, so that AI will have someone to AI with.
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so much different points. I dont like how genAI or LLMs are used, i dont like that billionaires decide how they are used. I dont like that they owe them. I dont like them everywhere, i dont like how much water they use, i dont like how bad they are, i dont like how much cars we use, i dont like trump, i dont like....
1. Nobody said shit about Trump. But since you asked, he sucks too.
2. Yep, we do not like all those things. You got it. Since when abundance of reasons is an unreasonable position. -
@HollieK72
Now the fun starts when a new generation of LLM's is trained on the output of LLM's. What could possibly go wrong?
@berniethewordsmith@alterelefant @HollieK72 @pluralistic called this "Habsburg AI" and I find the name incredibly fitting
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1. Nobody said shit about Trump. But since you asked, he sucks too.
2. Yep, we do not like all those things. You got it. Since when abundance of reasons is an unreasonable position.@berniethewordsmith *Nod*
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@TheOneSwit -
@berniethewordsmith Sure, at least today I completely agree. AI stories lack a lot compared to good human stories to the point it's a waste of time. That won't be any different for movies, tv, even web pages as it is. It's low effort junk.
At the same time, for writing code, AI is increasingly helpful.
@hopeless I decided to leave the coding part aside on the thread just for the fact that I am not a coder and I do not want to make assumptions about something that I do not know a lot of. But I gotta say I'm a bit concerned about all of that vibe coding I hear about. Although I'm almost certain that the thing you are speaking about and vibe coding are not the same
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@berniethewordsmith @Remittancegirl it is not only hype vs doom. Most of the time when AI ML is applied, it is an excuse for continuing current societal inequities with the excuse of it being "just math" and logic. See "Weapons of Math Destruction", " Algoritms of Oppression", etc.
There is also tons of AI washing. 404 media had an interesting interview recently with a data labeler in Kenya whose work includes being basically a sex worker for people getting off on chatbots. I wonder if their fantasy life would be as good if they knew they were dealing with a stressed low wage worker getting PTSD from catering to their kinks.
I have also been at academic meetings where most of the research used the "wizard of Oz" method: A human being pretended to be a chatbot, because these experts were unable to get an LLM to produce a useful output reliably.
In my mind it is slop and grift
@rrb @Remittancegirl Those examples are WILD. Jesus C
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I think you're misrepresenting the "both sides" people. Sure, some are just like the "just asking questions" people, but the LLM/AI discussion has been derailed.
The LLM peddlers are hyping up their machines as general AI that is perpetually 2 months away from achieving sentience. It probably started as naive optimism and has devolved into a need to keep stocks up to justify insane bubble-like valuations.
Simultaneously, people against it insist it's nothing more than a T9 dictionary without any merit or use. That is a false dichotomy and IMO disingenuous as it gives the LLM peddlers an easy counter: LLMs are more than prediction machines, even if they are not the super-intelligences the other side claims.
LLMs (and similar generative neural networks) are useful for certain things. Photoshop is augmented with tools for cleaning up images. If you pay "a real artist" to make an image "without AI," you can be 100% certain they have used "AI" as part of their process. Textual LLMs can be useful to get a starting point or reference for research, or to massage text.
"Both sides" is not saying that both the people that underplay and those that overplay the abilities of LLMs are right. It's saying they are both wrong and that LLMs can have uses even if they are not general thinking machines.
Refusing opinions other than "LLMs are useless for everything" allows people to (rightfully) ignore actual good points about ethics in training.@michael Gotta be honest and say that I do not see very often a discourse that says "LLMs are useless for everything". Like, ¿Does anyone actually said that? I definitely have seen the "fancy autocorrect" one, but.. it is kind of a tongue in cheek more than a scientific thesis about the full scope of those models.
The "two months until" is always very funny because they always try to explain why the next two months are so different to the previous amounts of two months
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@berniethewordsmith I actually just started my own GotoSocial instance a few days ago, and I only use #AI in really limited ways. BTW: My account there is @gtsadmin . Would like to make new friends there.
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@berniethewordsmith @gtsadmin Just a cheap VPS with Akamai. 1GB of RAM.
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@berniethewordsmith @Remittancegirl it is not only hype vs doom. Most of the time when AI ML is applied, it is an excuse for continuing current societal inequities with the excuse of it being "just math" and logic. See "Weapons of Math Destruction", " Algoritms of Oppression", etc.
There is also tons of AI washing. 404 media had an interesting interview recently with a data labeler in Kenya whose work includes being basically a sex worker for people getting off on chatbots. I wonder if their fantasy life would be as good if they knew they were dealing with a stressed low wage worker getting PTSD from catering to their kinks.
I have also been at academic meetings where most of the research used the "wizard of Oz" method: A human being pretended to be a chatbot, because these experts were unable to get an LLM to produce a useful output reliably.
In my mind it is slop and grift
@rrb @berniethewordsmith @Remittancegirl
"I wonder if their fantasy life would be as good if they knew they were dealing with a stressed low wage worker getting PTSD from catering to their kinks."
Adding that knowledge would, for many, improve the experience."Power" is a potent aphrodisiac (wrong word ; "stiffener"?), probably more effective than Viagra etc.
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@berniethewordsmith technophobia, when half of my room is cables from one side to another, and 4 desktop computers, 3 laptops and 4 netbooks in different stages of "working", 2 raspberry pi's, 3 conosoles that also run Linux and also the wii running windows NT 4 with wordperfect just because fuck it, it's cool. I fucking love puters.
@cygnathreadbare Which one is the most bulky?
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@rrb @berniethewordsmith @Remittancegirl
"I wonder if their fantasy life would be as good if they knew they were dealing with a stressed low wage worker getting PTSD from catering to their kinks."
Adding that knowledge would, for many, improve the experience."Power" is a potent aphrodisiac (wrong word ; "stiffener"?), probably more effective than Viagra etc.
@WellsiteGeo @berniethewordsmith @Remittancegirl then why not talk dirty to a homeless person in their neighborhood?
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@berniethewordsmith Thank you for this outstanding thread. You've said everything I have wanted to say, but much more eloquently.
@Remittancegirl @berniethewordsmith
Seconded! And instantly followed as a result. Brilliant
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@cygnathreadbare Which one is the most bulky?
@berniethewordsmith bulkiest destkop, my newest one, a ryzen 5 with rtx 5070, it's not huge but it's like 10 cm taller and 5cm wider than my old one. Bulkiest laptop, a 2008 celeron upgraded to core2duo, now inactive because the charger died two months ago (probably because the core2duo takes almost twice the power).
Still should have an even bulkier desktop at my old place, a 2005-ish athlon I set up on a tower I found in the garbage, never measured it but was like 2x standard pc towers. It was empty except some SCSI cables so I guess it was used for (literal) mass storage or mass cd/dvd burning.
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@berniethewordsmith
It is interesting to see so much commentary about LLMs by people who are aligning as a tribe to oppose them. How much do people really know about what they are? How much do people think they should know, before assuming that they know enough?@johntinker I do not know a lot of those religious groups that knock on my door from time to time, but I can definitely tell you that it is getting really exhausting having to answer the door and listen how I need to read a particular gospel to avoid an Apocalypse. I do know how LLMs work and I do not "oppose" them. I just know they do not fix all the things and that their misuse is damaging human beings. I don't want them on EVERY soup I eat. And I do not want them on the fiction I read.
