“nothing that can be done about this” says guy who caused this and derogatorily called anyone who doesn’t like it an SJW
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@TheOneDoc @zzt i disagree. The big contributors want access to steering and influence in big picture changes. There is little reason for them to care if they allow whatever flavor of AI is their (dead) horse atm.
The worst that could happen to MS, G, and AMZN is if Linux were to tighten license conditions on the kernel -
rsync in particular is insane to me because like it was finished, it didn't need updates, and it wasn't getting any because it was finished, but the maintainer who had given it away to someone else because of burnout for some reason decided to take it back and has now ruined it completely with gibberish code from the robot.
@daemonspudguy @zzt Number (of new lines of code) go up.
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oh hey, some of you have seen this before but look at torvalds’ prior work before shoving LLMs forcefully into the workflow of the kernel:
https://infosec.exchange/@atax1a/115867354992858960
it’s a fucking Python data visualizer tool that you or I could have written in a day, but torvalds decided Python wasn’t a worthy language for him to learn so he used an LLM instead
and this wasn’t his first time fucking with the things, but this was his last project before he decided to go all-in
somehow an LLM doing a shit Python data visualization tool for one of his hobbies convinced him that LLMs must be really good at the type of low-level C the kernel is written in
that’s all the evidence this mid little fucker needed to assert it as fact
@zzt I remember that incident. I heard so much that I was overreacting and how this is actually a good use of LLMs and he knows never to use it in the kernel.
Whelp.
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and again I’ll point out how fucking quick this shit is happening
torvalds posts a defense of AI slop in the kernel with a right-wing conspiracy theory as the reason
a bunch of other open source projects just go “well the kernel says it’s ok so we’re doing slop now”
barely a couple of weeks later the kernel is changing its release cadence and quality standards entirely and the man in charge is shrugging and literally going “what can you do”
you can cut the crap, asshole. it’s your literal job to cut the crap.
@zzt Hey, Linus, I think this qualifies as you having been hit by a bus.
I just hope the next guy isn't as bad. (yes, the contingency has been planned for, so I'm not so optimistic on this front---chosen successors tend to hew closely to their predecessor's worldview)
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“nothing that can be done about this” says guy who caused this and derogatorily called anyone who doesn’t like it an SJW
@zzt He needs a fucking slap
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@TheOneDoc @zzt i disagree. The big contributors want access to steering and influence in big picture changes. There is little reason for them to care if they allow whatever flavor of AI is their (dead) horse atm.
The worst that could happen to MS, G, and AMZN is if Linux were to tighten license conditions on the kernelHappy willful ignorants blind themselves day!
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“it’s just a tool and the future and you’re an SJW for not wanting it” torvalds screamed over the sound of rsync, a previously very stable C codebase that lots of infrastructure relies on, melting into vibed slop that can’t reliably do anything anymore
it’s fucking wild to see another foundational project break so hard a bunch of dependencies either dumped it or stayed on an old version and go “oh me too” and implement the exact same “tool” and development processes built around that “tool” and not see the train about to hit you when your releases start to look exactly like that other project’s releases
@zzt i think we just get more and more proofs that LLMs are incredibly addictive, and that you should never use them even just as a test on some dump code because you'll quickly become so hooked you'd willingly become the infection vector for the rest of your projects too.
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and again I’ll point out how fucking quick this shit is happening
torvalds posts a defense of AI slop in the kernel with a right-wing conspiracy theory as the reason
a bunch of other open source projects just go “well the kernel says it’s ok so we’re doing slop now”
barely a couple of weeks later the kernel is changing its release cadence and quality standards entirely and the man in charge is shrugging and literally going “what can you do”
you can cut the crap, asshole. it’s your literal job to cut the crap.
@zzt@mas.to Torvald’s needs to be replaced by somebody that not insane. Looks like I’m abandoning Linux. To one of the BSDs, been on Mac OS for decades so the differences between Unixes is less than a minor hassle. And maintained a code base back in the 90s than ran on 6 Unix platforms. All POSIX compliant mostly.
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@zzt the man who famously described himself as woke? who kidnapped linus
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“nothing that can be done about this” says guy who caused this and derogatorily called anyone who doesn’t like it an SJW
@zzt same guy next year when we learn that four different state actors and three mafias have had access to all our shit for months
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“nothing that can be done about this” says guy who caused this and derogatorily called anyone who doesn’t like it an SJW
@zzt And thats why kings are bad. If the king goes mad, the empire goes to shit.
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and you know what? almost all of the projects claiming LLMs benefited them are cookie cutter web and app crap in typescript or some other high level language
the only instances I’ve seen of kernel code in C being produced by an LLM have all been broken, plagarized slop. like shit, look at the utter failure of a C compiler that’s… abandoned now. look at the utter failure of a web browser that’s… also abandoned. the slop “reimplementation” of Macintosh System 7 that doesn’t work. the Meshtastic OS from the guy who tried to steal the Meshtastic copyright that… also doesn’t work
so uh where does this assertion that these things are any good at C come from? every time this has been tried it failed badly.
@zzt (minor correction: MeshCore, not meshtastic)
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nobody requested this, nobody wants gigantic kernel updates with very low quality code in them. the kernel of all things needs a slower pace and more care, because it’s the fucking kernel.
so who do you imagine is holding torvalds’ feet to the fire on this? maybe it’s the LLM companies pouring fucktons of money into the Linux foundation? nah can’t be. must be all the downstream projects that are going to get fucked over by this, they surely want the worst possible version of Linux
@zzt I guess me and other amd gpu users are already enjoying the benefits of those huge updates: https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/graphical-issues-on-amd-after-kernel-update-to-7-1-6/198522
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@zzt I'm starting to see more of the benefit of microkernels as time goes on.
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“it’s just a tool and the future and you’re an SJW for not wanting it” torvalds screamed over the sound of rsync, a previously very stable C codebase that lots of infrastructure relies on, melting into vibed slop that can’t reliably do anything anymore
it’s fucking wild to see another foundational project break so hard a bunch of dependencies either dumped it or stayed on an old version and go “oh me too” and implement the exact same “tool” and development processes built around that “tool” and not see the train about to hit you when your releases start to look exactly like that other project’s releases
@zzt wait, what about rsync? rsync isn't stable anymore?
/me goes to research rsync… -
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and again I’ll point out how fucking quick this shit is happening
torvalds posts a defense of AI slop in the kernel with a right-wing conspiracy theory as the reason
a bunch of other open source projects just go “well the kernel says it’s ok so we’re doing slop now”
barely a couple of weeks later the kernel is changing its release cadence and quality standards entirely and the man in charge is shrugging and literally going “what can you do”
you can cut the crap, asshole. it’s your literal job to cut the crap.
@zzt what a crazy timeline.
OK, do I need to reformat all my machines to some BSD now?
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@fluidlogic @mxchara @vy @zzt I'm not familiar with this text, and rarely if ever touch JavaScript (at least since I did experiments with callbacks from Java applets in the late 90s when Netscape Communicator got released). I might recommend "Embracing Modern C++ Safely" by Lakos et al. https://www.informit.com/store/embracing-modern-c-plus-plus-safely-9780137380350
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@fluidlogic @mxchara @vy @zzt I'm not familiar with this text, and rarely if ever touch JavaScript (at least since I did experiments with callbacks from Java applets in the late 90s when Netscape Communicator got released). I might recommend "Embracing Modern C++ Safely" by Lakos et al. https://www.informit.com/store/embracing-modern-c-plus-plus-safely-9780137380350
@bms Thank you! that looks exactly like what I was looking for!
Embracing Modern C++ Safely shows you how to make effective use of the new and enhanced language features of modern C++ without falling victim to their potential pitfalls.
Based on their years of experience with large, mission-critical projects, four leading C++ authorities divide C++11/14 language features into three categories: Safe, Conditionally Safe, and Unsafe. Safe features offer compelling value, are easy to use productively, and are relatively difficult to misuse. Conditionally safe features offer significant value but come with risks that require significant expertise and familiarity before use. Unsafe features have an especially poor risk/reward ratio, are easy to misuse, and are beneficial in only the most specialized circumstances.
