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FARVEL BIG TECH
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  2. Ikke-kategoriseret
  3. I do not use AI in my legal work.

I do not use AI in my legal work.

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  • aadeacon@mastodon.socialA aadeacon@mastodon.social

    @neil What concerns me is the potential for a grave miscarriage of Justice occurring when AI is used (or its attempted use) in a legal case.

    rndanger@infosec.exchangeR This user is from outside of this forum
    rndanger@infosec.exchangeR This user is from outside of this forum
    rndanger@infosec.exchange
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #21

    @aadeacon @neil
    I forget where i read it but there's already been a case where someone used a chat bot as a lawyer and their logs were subpoenaed

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    • manchestermelly@universeodon.comM manchestermelly@universeodon.com

      @Scmbradley @neil I would love some legal advice from your six year old on something. Last weekend I participated in a tea party with my niece and a few of her dolls. Out of nowhere she threw a cup of boiling hot imaginary tea all over me, giving my imaginary burns. I had to have a doctor (who looked suspiciously like my niece) put a bandage on my head. Do I have grounds to sue?

      neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN This user is from outside of this forum
      neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN This user is from outside of this forum
      neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #22

      @manchestermelly @Scmbradley

      There are some genuinely fascinating parallels there with interactions in online worlds, and the extent to which offences against a person can apply in an online environment.

      This book is now a little dated, but it is well worth reading:

      https://archive.org/details/virtualjusticene00

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      • neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN This user is from outside of this forum
        neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN This user is from outside of this forum
        neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #23

        @kabel42 @elexia

        It is fun, isn't it, as a "mal function" - a "bad function" - could indeed be commonplace!

        I guess I just feel that the language of "hallucination" plays into the anthropomorphism of this kind of tool.

        reinald@nrw.socialR 1 Reply Last reply
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        • neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk

          I do not use AI in my legal work.

          Some of my clients use AI.

          I saw an AI output this morning, purporting to give information about data protection law (whether an IP address is personal data).

          It included two cases, which do not exist. It did not include any case law which does exist. It gave no warning that the output was fiction.

          Even if they can get over the ethical concerns (which, currently, I cannot), it would be cheaper, probably more fun, and no less inaccurate to ask a passing toddler.

          bsdphk@fosstodon.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
          bsdphk@fosstodon.orgB This user is from outside of this forum
          bsdphk@fosstodon.org
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #24

          @neil

          My wife calls AI "Drunk Uncle as a Service"

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          • manchestermelly@universeodon.comM manchestermelly@universeodon.com

            @neil The company I work for trialled several AIs (glorified predictive text generators) for software development. They hallucinated, would often break one thing to fix another, made things up when they didn't know the answer, and used old, outdated concepts. We've now banned AI on all client projects.

            decibyte@social.data.coopD This user is from outside of this forum
            decibyte@social.data.coopD This user is from outside of this forum
            decibyte@social.data.coop
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #25

            @manchestermelly @neil Is this company hiring?

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            • manchestermelly@universeodon.comM manchestermelly@universeodon.com

              @neil The company I work for trialled several AIs (glorified predictive text generators) for software development. They hallucinated, would often break one thing to fix another, made things up when they didn't know the answer, and used old, outdated concepts. We've now banned AI on all client projects.

              drhyde@fosstodon.orgD This user is from outside of this forum
              drhyde@fosstodon.orgD This user is from outside of this forum
              drhyde@fosstodon.org
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #26

              @manchestermelly @neil that sounds no different from throwing junior devs at the problem without adult supervision or enough test coverage.

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              • neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk

                I do not use AI in my legal work.

                Some of my clients use AI.

                I saw an AI output this morning, purporting to give information about data protection law (whether an IP address is personal data).

                It included two cases, which do not exist. It did not include any case law which does exist. It gave no warning that the output was fiction.

                Even if they can get over the ethical concerns (which, currently, I cannot), it would be cheaper, probably more fun, and no less inaccurate to ask a passing toddler.

                blamellors@mstdn.partyB This user is from outside of this forum
                blamellors@mstdn.partyB This user is from outside of this forum
                blamellors@mstdn.party
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #27

                @neil 😂

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                • neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk

                  I do not use AI in my legal work.

                  Some of my clients use AI.

                  I saw an AI output this morning, purporting to give information about data protection law (whether an IP address is personal data).

                  It included two cases, which do not exist. It did not include any case law which does exist. It gave no warning that the output was fiction.

                  Even if they can get over the ethical concerns (which, currently, I cannot), it would be cheaper, probably more fun, and no less inaccurate to ask a passing toddler.

                  david@social.piconet.workD This user is from outside of this forum
                  david@social.piconet.workD This user is from outside of this forum
                  david@social.piconet.work
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #28

                  @neil I’ve been using AI to help me understand a complex legal case lately, although it is because legal experts are too expensive and I’d totally fail by myself. As an autistic person it’s simply too much data to parse unaided. If a person has money I’d always say “find a solicitor”, but in my case it’s that or nothing it seems. Nobody has capacity either.

                  silverwizard@convenient.emailS 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • david@social.piconet.workD david@social.piconet.work

                    @neil I’ve been using AI to help me understand a complex legal case lately, although it is because legal experts are too expensive and I’d totally fail by myself. As an autistic person it’s simply too much data to parse unaided. If a person has money I’d always say “find a solicitor”, but in my case it’s that or nothing it seems. Nobody has capacity either.

                    silverwizard@convenient.emailS This user is from outside of this forum
                    silverwizard@convenient.emailS This user is from outside of this forum
                    silverwizard@convenient.email
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #29
                    @david @neil You understand that the person you are responding to is saying that LLM output looks enough like data to sometimes fool solicitors, but has no value in understanding or assisting in interpretation? Correct?
                    david@social.piconet.workD 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk

                      @kabel42 @elexia

                      It is fun, isn't it, as a "mal function" - a "bad function" - could indeed be commonplace!

                      I guess I just feel that the language of "hallucination" plays into the anthropomorphism of this kind of tool.

                      reinald@nrw.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                      reinald@nrw.socialR This user is from outside of this forum
                      reinald@nrw.social
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #30

                      @neil @kabel42 @elexia the job of.the LLM thing is to produce plausible sounding text. And that's what it is doing. Fine legal lingo. It would take a different thing to train a legal LLM ONLY on relevant training material AND to do the output criteria correctly cited.

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                      • silverwizard@convenient.emailS silverwizard@convenient.email
                        @david @neil You understand that the person you are responding to is saying that LLM output looks enough like data to sometimes fool solicitors, but has no value in understanding or assisting in interpretation? Correct?
                        david@social.piconet.workD This user is from outside of this forum
                        david@social.piconet.workD This user is from outside of this forum
                        david@social.piconet.work
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #31

                        @silverwizard @neil I’m saying in my case it’s either use AI to try to make sense of something, or totally give up. Enough of it is correct when it’s a simple question. I of course value solicitors, but try finding one who will help someone who lives on benefits and has a disability that makes communication more difficult. Literally nobody wants to help.

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                        • neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.ukN neil@mastodon.neilzone.co.uk

                          Ethical concerns butter no parsnips, it seems.

                          And getting the message across that the output of AI is unreliable, and not "better than nothing", is difficult.

                          So I asked for another small experiment, with another, ostensibly simple, non-legal, query.

                          The problem was incredibly obvious. This wasn't legal nuance, or a mistyped citation. Just utter nonsense.

                          "Fancy relying on this for anything now", I wondered...

                          skua@mastodon.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                          skua@mastodon.socialS This user is from outside of this forum
                          skua@mastodon.social
                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                          #32

                          @neil

                          The obvious improvement is for the LLM to insist that it is right and that #1 attempt is a good representation of a donkey.

                          At the very least computer display manufacturers and anger management course providers will be better off.

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                          • pelle@veganism.socialP pelle@veganism.social shared this topic
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