So let me get this straight:
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@lin11c @Gustodon the only problem is, that in temperate climate zone, you have winter. During winter, the production goes as low as 10% and only for few hours per day.
Cloudy days and nights are mostly ok during summer, when the batteries can recharge only after few hours of sunlight.
This means, that we still need some backup sources during winter. And this is the only issue, because scalable long term accumulation is still not easy.
@xChaos @lin11c @Gustodon You are right, of course. People will fight against sustainable energy use until the externalities eventually get so bad that the transition will force itself upon us, and at that point it will be a sudden, unplanned catastrophe, rather than the gradual planned transition we could afford to make if we start now.
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@xChaos Agreed. But we also need to really ask ourselves what needs electricity and what doesn't. I don't know enough about it to say but even the idea that it's always turned on might be an error.
@Gustodon @xChaos Another question is, how much electricity, given that RV campers used for living quarters do just fine on a 12v system, and given that where 115v/220v is available for housed residences have to run a gazillion wall warts to run stuff requiring less than what's supplied on a daily basis. Only large appliances (washers, dryers, microwaves, and until recently, refrigerators) require that kind of juice. Except for fridges, none of the others are run continuously, daily. -
RE: https://vis.social/@infobeautiful/116109430224379547
So let me get this straight:
- Solar panels are more efficient and easier to install.
- They're becoming shockingly cheap, like TVs.
- They last much longer than expected.
- They provide unexpected environmental benefits.That's a done deal.
@Gustodon I have a small emergency system (power box and single portable panel) that I got from Harbor Freight for under $400 ($450 if you get the extended warranty).
I got it for camping, but it is also great for keeping phones charged in blackouts.
The power box is strong enough to run a USB electric blanket and phone charger all night, while watching a movie on my phone. (Only one, but hey) -
@Gustodon @xChaos Another question is, how much electricity, given that RV campers used for living quarters do just fine on a 12v system, and given that where 115v/220v is available for housed residences have to run a gazillion wall warts to run stuff requiring less than what's supplied on a daily basis. Only large appliances (washers, dryers, microwaves, and until recently, refrigerators) require that kind of juice. Except for fridges, none of the others are run continuously, daily.
@claralistensprechen3rd @Gustodon
I have extensive experience with both several designs of solar powered bicycles and with small FVE system, back-uped from grid, used only during 3 summer seasons (not during in winter). Even during summer, the solar bike struggles to recharge, when there are heavy clouds.
12V system without inverters would be better choice in winter, but generally, power generation is really limited during winter season. You could get some advantage with mixing with wind power, but it does not perform well for small scale systems (unlike FVE), and for most location it is not enough (but it is probably ok, if you live on the shores of North Sea..)
I am all for solar and I promote it as much as possible: but we need long term storage, and the only publicly promoted alternative, hydrogen, is both expensive and inefficient (in terms of loses during charging and discharging of the storage).
The most energy intense is heat generation (generally, something 50% of all energy consumption is heating). Heat pumps, exchangers, better insulation and waste heat recycling can help - but it means rethinking just everything about our civilization and way of life.
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@lin11c @Gustodon the only problem is, that in temperate climate zone, you have winter. During winter, the production goes as low as 10% and only for few hours per day.
Cloudy days and nights are mostly ok during summer, when the batteries can recharge only after few hours of sunlight.
This means, that we still need some backup sources during winter. And this is the only issue, because scalable long term accumulation is still not easy.
@xChaos @Gustodon
Yes of course that's true. Storing excess capacity in batteries becomes important, and from my understanding, the batteries are getting a lot better. We must thwart the planned obsolescence that is now rampant in our capitalist "democracies". They won't allow for products that last for decades. There must be constant replacements, upgrades, and a large "profit" for shareholders. That's where all progress crumbles and fails. It's not allowed!! -
@Gustodon @xChaos Another question is, how much electricity, given that RV campers used for living quarters do just fine on a 12v system, and given that where 115v/220v is available for housed residences have to run a gazillion wall warts to run stuff requiring less than what's supplied on a daily basis. Only large appliances (washers, dryers, microwaves, and until recently, refrigerators) require that kind of juice. Except for fridges, none of the others are run continuously, daily.
@claralistensprechen3rd @Gustodon @xChaos My water conditioning system consumes more energy in the few hours it runs each week than all my other appliances combined. Without it, the water has way too many minerals and metals to drink safely IMO. There are other appliances such as sump pumps where continuous power is essential. I’m gradually adding power consumption sensors to everything in the house that uses electricity. I think a big part of a solar solution is figuring out what you can do without, what you need for quality of life, and what you need for rare but high demand events. Our houses are also not wired very well for active management of consumption. I think of Star Trek when the Captain says, “Divert all power to the forward shields!” Or, “Reduce life support to bare minimums!”
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@xChaos @Gustodon
Yes of course that's true. Storing excess capacity in batteries becomes important, and from my understanding, the batteries are getting a lot better. We must thwart the planned obsolescence that is now rampant in our capitalist "democracies". They won't allow for products that last for decades. There must be constant replacements, upgrades, and a large "profit" for shareholders. That's where all progress crumbles and fails. It's not allowed!!@lin11c @Gustodon unlike plastic crap, with batteries, the obsolescence is not really planned. Of course, the best available technology may not be available, for example because of stockpiles of old stuff or licensing issues, but mostly I beleive it is just really because existing level of technology.
In most of temperate climate zone, you can get energy autonomy with solar panels and battery for 8 months per year, but the winter season would be really tricky, even when burning wood for heating. But selling excess energy to grid and buying it during winter can be way to go. The regulations required for doing this are slowly getting better.
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RE: https://vis.social/@infobeautiful/116109430224379547
So let me get this straight:
- Solar panels are more efficient and easier to install.
- They're becoming shockingly cheap, like TVs.
- They last much longer than expected.
- They provide unexpected environmental benefits.That's a done deal.
@Gustodon
...and they still don't know how to properly predict how it will proceeds from where we're right now. Every single one of those yellow prediction line was crap and you don't need to be an expert to see that the latest one is completely bullshit. -
RE: https://vis.social/@infobeautiful/116109430224379547
So let me get this straight:
- Solar panels are more efficient and easier to install.
- They're becoming shockingly cheap, like TVs.
- They last much longer than expected.
- They provide unexpected environmental benefits.That's a done deal.
-
@Gustodon
They don't require being connected to a grid, correct? That could be a real plus in the future world chaos. Don't need AI either.
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RE: https://vis.social/@infobeautiful/116109430224379547
So let me get this straight:
- Solar panels are more efficient and easier to install.
- They're becoming shockingly cheap, like TVs.
- They last much longer than expected.
- They provide unexpected environmental benefits.That's a done deal.
@Gustodon So the Tennessee Valley Power Authority announces they are going back to coal in Trump’s stupid America .
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@lin11c @Gustodon unlike plastic crap, with batteries, the obsolescence is not really planned. Of course, the best available technology may not be available, for example because of stockpiles of old stuff or licensing issues, but mostly I beleive it is just really because existing level of technology.
In most of temperate climate zone, you can get energy autonomy with solar panels and battery for 8 months per year, but the winter season would be really tricky, even when burning wood for heating. But selling excess energy to grid and buying it during winter can be way to go. The regulations required for doing this are slowly getting better.
@xChaos @lin11c @Gustodon in seattle the grid storage math works out really well. My power utility just charges me around $10/month for the grid connection (which I’d have anyway) and then essentially runs my meter in reverse when I’m generating excess power, so there’s no real financial incentive to me getting a battery.
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@xChaos @lin11c @Gustodon in seattle the grid storage math works out really well. My power utility just charges me around $10/month for the grid connection (which I’d have anyway) and then essentially runs my meter in reverse when I’m generating excess power, so there’s no real financial incentive to me getting a battery.
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@xChaos Agreed. But we also need to really ask ourselves what needs electricity and what doesn't. I don't know enough about it to say but even the idea that it's always turned on might be an error.
-
@lin11c @Gustodon unlike plastic crap, with batteries, the obsolescence is not really planned. Of course, the best available technology may not be available, for example because of stockpiles of old stuff or licensing issues, but mostly I beleive it is just really because existing level of technology.
In most of temperate climate zone, you can get energy autonomy with solar panels and battery for 8 months per year, but the winter season would be really tricky, even when burning wood for heating. But selling excess energy to grid and buying it during winter can be way to go. The regulations required for doing this are slowly getting better.
-
@claralistensprechen3rd @Gustodon @xChaos My water conditioning system consumes more energy in the few hours it runs each week than all my other appliances combined. Without it, the water has way too many minerals and metals to drink safely IMO. There are other appliances such as sump pumps where continuous power is essential. I’m gradually adding power consumption sensors to everything in the house that uses electricity. I think a big part of a solar solution is figuring out what you can do without, what you need for quality of life, and what you need for rare but high demand events. Our houses are also not wired very well for active management of consumption. I think of Star Trek when the Captain says, “Divert all power to the forward shields!” Or, “Reduce life support to bare minimums!”
@meltedcheese yes, when at our solar powered location, we tend to plan energy usage according to battery state of charge, even if we are backed-up from grid. Eg. we would plan using certain appliances, cook on gas instead of electricity, or so. Not just because money, but one just likes to use the energy when it is abundant...
But during winter, energy is really not abundant...
@claralistensprechen3rd @Gustodon -
RE: https://vis.social/@infobeautiful/116109430224379547
So let me get this straight:
- Solar panels are more efficient and easier to install.
- They're becoming shockingly cheap, like TVs.
- They last much longer than expected.
- They provide unexpected environmental benefits.That's a done deal.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/trump-oil-industry-donations
https://www.npr.org/transcripts/nx-s1-5639951
https://www.commondreams.org/news/trump-big-oil-1-billion
This graph explains why the fossil fuel industry is funding fascist movements globally.
https://msmagazine.com/2026/02/20/heritage-foundation-women/https://www.axios.com/2026/01/16/trump-power-data-center-costs
Their planet-frying business is at risk.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/20/us/politics/koch-network-2024-election-trump.htmlThey want AI to thwart that switch to solar & wind.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/27/technology/saudi-arabia-ai-exporter.html
https://carnegieendowment.org/emissary/2025/05/ai-chip-trump-gulf-uae-saudi-security-risk-good-deal
https://www.chosun.com/english/industry-en/2026/02/02/KAQOZZIMUZH4LDU5PPTZUWGF2M/
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RE: https://vis.social/@infobeautiful/116109430224379547
So let me get this straight:
- Solar panels are more efficient and easier to install.
- They're becoming shockingly cheap, like TVs.
- They last much longer than expected.
- They provide unexpected environmental benefits.That's a done deal.
-
RE: https://vis.social/@infobeautiful/116109430224379547
So let me get this straight:
- Solar panels are more efficient and easier to install.
- They're becoming shockingly cheap, like TVs.
- They last much longer than expected.
- They provide unexpected environmental benefits.That's a done deal.
@Gustodon I hope it becomes a standard component of new builds.
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