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  3. I dislike the concept of 'discrimination' for several reasons.

I dislike the concept of 'discrimination' for several reasons.

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  • malte@radikal.socialM malte@radikal.social

    I dislike the concept of 'discrimination' for several reasons. 1: It gives the impression that merely perceiving difference is the problem. Discrimination simply means being able to distinguish between different things. The problem with racism is not that people are not color-blind. As many colored people who grew up in a white world will tell you, it can be very alienating to perceive your own difference in the mirror, but everyone around you pretends the difference is not there.

    malte@radikal.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
    malte@radikal.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
    malte@radikal.social
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #2

    2: "The problem" is not one single other thing. My approach is to have more concepts available. But generally, I would say "discrimination" can often better be described as either contempt, disgust for or paternalization of differences. Contempt and disgust are the easiest to spot. Paternalizing difference can be more tricky. It's when well-meaning (but perhaps slightly demeaning) men insist on "helping" a woman with something she's perfectly capable of.

    malte@radikal.socialM 1 Reply Last reply
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    • malte@radikal.socialM malte@radikal.social

      2: "The problem" is not one single other thing. My approach is to have more concepts available. But generally, I would say "discrimination" can often better be described as either contempt, disgust for or paternalization of differences. Contempt and disgust are the easiest to spot. Paternalizing difference can be more tricky. It's when well-meaning (but perhaps slightly demeaning) men insist on "helping" a woman with something she's perfectly capable of.

      malte@radikal.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
      malte@radikal.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
      malte@radikal.social
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #3

      There's also the case of putting too much focus on difference in a context that's not ready for it. Foreigners - or people that just look "foreign" in a very homogenous setting - are sometimes bombarded with questions about where they are from. It makes the exchange very uneven - and uneven is a close companion to unequal.

      malte@radikal.socialM 1 Reply Last reply
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      • malte@radikal.socialM malte@radikal.social

        There's also the case of putting too much focus on difference in a context that's not ready for it. Foreigners - or people that just look "foreign" in a very homogenous setting - are sometimes bombarded with questions about where they are from. It makes the exchange very uneven - and uneven is a close companion to unequal.

        malte@radikal.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
        malte@radikal.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
        malte@radikal.social
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #4

        When all the communication (questions, comments) is directed toward one person in a room, that person is in some way excluded from the community. The underlying message is (without anyone else realizing): You're not one of us. Anyone who's tried becoming an exotic object like that knows how unsettling and unsafe it can feel. Coming in to a new group of people and being told by everyone "you're not one of us" - it makes sense you don't feel safe. Again, the people can be entirely well-meaning!

        malte@radikal.socialM 1 Reply Last reply
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        • malte@radikal.socialM malte@radikal.social

          When all the communication (questions, comments) is directed toward one person in a room, that person is in some way excluded from the community. The underlying message is (without anyone else realizing): You're not one of us. Anyone who's tried becoming an exotic object like that knows how unsettling and unsafe it can feel. Coming in to a new group of people and being told by everyone "you're not one of us" - it makes sense you don't feel safe. Again, the people can be entirely well-meaning!

          malte@radikal.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
          malte@radikal.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
          malte@radikal.social
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #5

          I think this phenomenon of "producing the outsider" can also be grouped with the other examples of what we normally mean, when we talk about 'discrimination'. I think of it as "telling the difference" a bit too much, too soon.

          skatan@social.spejset.orgS 1 Reply Last reply
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          • malte@radikal.socialM malte@radikal.social

            I think this phenomenon of "producing the outsider" can also be grouped with the other examples of what we normally mean, when we talk about 'discrimination'. I think of it as "telling the difference" a bit too much, too soon.

            skatan@social.spejset.orgS This user is from outside of this forum
            skatan@social.spejset.orgS This user is from outside of this forum
            skatan@social.spejset.org
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #6

            @malte I like your description. It might not cover all aspects (can any description), and you haven't said much about the underlying difference in power — which creates an asymmetry, the reason why there is no "racism against white people".
            Some terms that can help to read more about the concepts you bring up, if anyone is interested:

            1/4

            skatan@social.spejset.orgS 1 Reply Last reply
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            • skatan@social.spejset.orgS skatan@social.spejset.org

              @malte I like your description. It might not cover all aspects (can any description), and you haven't said much about the underlying difference in power — which creates an asymmetry, the reason why there is no "racism against white people".
              Some terms that can help to read more about the concepts you bring up, if anyone is interested:

              1/4

              skatan@social.spejset.orgS This user is from outside of this forum
              skatan@social.spejset.orgS This user is from outside of this forum
              skatan@social.spejset.org
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #7

              @malte "Othering" is how you produce and mark the outsider, in your mind and in a group.
              "Micro-aggressions" are the questions you are bombarded with that mark you as different, the consequence is that you can experience "minority stress", the burden of sticking out and being different.

              2/4

              skatan@social.spejset.orgS 1 Reply Last reply
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              • skatan@social.spejset.orgS skatan@social.spejset.org

                @malte "Othering" is how you produce and mark the outsider, in your mind and in a group.
                "Micro-aggressions" are the questions you are bombarded with that mark you as different, the consequence is that you can experience "minority stress", the burden of sticking out and being different.

                2/4

                skatan@social.spejset.orgS This user is from outside of this forum
                skatan@social.spejset.orgS This user is from outside of this forum
                skatan@social.spejset.org
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #8

                @malte This is something many white cis hetero people also can relate to, but experiencing it because of how you look and who you are (e.g. black or trans), instead of your choices (e.g. being vegan or left) is on a different scale — you never know when it strikes next.

                Foe me, learning about these concepts really changed how I thought about "discrimination". But it is important not to forget that it is not merely about the relation of majority, but also about structures of power.

                3/4

                skatan@social.spejset.orgS 1 Reply Last reply
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                • skatan@social.spejset.orgS skatan@social.spejset.org

                  @malte This is something many white cis hetero people also can relate to, but experiencing it because of how you look and who you are (e.g. black or trans), instead of your choices (e.g. being vegan or left) is on a different scale — you never know when it strikes next.

                  Foe me, learning about these concepts really changed how I thought about "discrimination". But it is important not to forget that it is not merely about the relation of majority, but also about structures of power.

                  3/4

                  skatan@social.spejset.orgS This user is from outside of this forum
                  skatan@social.spejset.orgS This user is from outside of this forum
                  skatan@social.spejset.org
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #9

                  @malte A single white person in a group of people of color might experience minority stress, but never racism. A single man in a group of women might experience minority stress, but never sexism. So it is not just about being different and sticking out, but also about the broader context, the structures that control how often and where you experience this and what the consequences can be.

                  4/4

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                  • malte@radikal.socialM malte@radikal.social

                    I dislike the concept of 'discrimination' for several reasons. 1: It gives the impression that merely perceiving difference is the problem. Discrimination simply means being able to distinguish between different things. The problem with racism is not that people are not color-blind. As many colored people who grew up in a white world will tell you, it can be very alienating to perceive your own difference in the mirror, but everyone around you pretends the difference is not there.

                    skatan@social.spejset.orgS This user is from outside of this forum
                    skatan@social.spejset.orgS This user is from outside of this forum
                    skatan@social.spejset.org
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #10

                    @malte The term "colored" is in many contexts considered offensive, a racial slur:
                    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colored

                    In an international context like here a respectful way would be to use for example "people of color".

                    malte@radikal.socialM 1 Reply Last reply
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                    • skatan@social.spejset.orgS skatan@social.spejset.org

                      @malte The term "colored" is in many contexts considered offensive, a racial slur:
                      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colored

                      In an international context like here a respectful way would be to use for example "people of color".

                      malte@radikal.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                      malte@radikal.socialM This user is from outside of this forum
                      malte@radikal.social
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #11

                      @skatan Thank you for that context. English is not my mother tongue and I didn't know the meaning between "Colored people" and "People of Color".

                      1 Reply Last reply
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