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  3. something that's been bothering me about the phpocalypse - which, talking with @rain I was able to put a pin in, after they pointed out what they would do in a similar situation - is that this doesn't feel like a security patch at all.

something that's been bothering me about the phpocalypse - which, talking with @rain I was able to put a pin in, after they pointed out what they would do in a similar situation - is that this doesn't feel like a security patch at all.

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  • munin@infosec.exchangeM munin@infosec.exchange

    and yes, I think they've been suborned by claude because the solution is "way more code" instead of "simplify oom handling in an easy to understand way" and claude has a history of suggesting "create a vast new thing" before any other solution, as claude is a paperclip maximizer for software and it's gotten into everything.

    astraluma@tacobelllabs.netA This user is from outside of this forum
    astraluma@tacobelllabs.netA This user is from outside of this forum
    astraluma@tacobelllabs.net
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #3

    @munin esp a half assed solution that only touches _most_ of what needs to be touched

    astraluma@tacobelllabs.netA 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • munin@infosec.exchangeM munin@infosec.exchange

      and yes, I think they've been suborned by claude because the solution is "way more code" instead of "simplify oom handling in an easy to understand way" and claude has a history of suggesting "create a vast new thing" before any other solution, as claude is a paperclip maximizer for software and it's gotten into everything.

      r@glauca.spaceR This user is from outside of this forum
      r@glauca.spaceR This user is from outside of this forum
      r@glauca.space
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #4

      @munin idk about claude, but we also believe "abort on OOM" is the correct behavior

      this is *already* a cgi-bin-inspired execution model, you are *perfectly suited* to just abort!

      munin@infosec.exchangeM argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.orgA 2 Replies Last reply
      0
      • munin@infosec.exchangeM munin@infosec.exchange

        something that's been bothering me about the phpocalypse - which, talking with @rain I was able to put a pin in, after they pointed out what they would do in a similar situation - is that this doesn't feel like a security patch at all.

        this feels like a major feature upgrade.

        which is weird in the circumstances.

        the kind of patch that you would expect to see during a major all hands on deck kind of emergency would be the smallest, least-touch change possible - Rain suggested "abort on OOM" which is a nice sensible solution; sure it hits availability a little but in a way that synergizes nicely with defender goals (denying materiel to an attacker; reducing blast radius to "an instance becomes momentarily unavailable until the service gets restarted")

        instead, this has a massive rework of how OOM situations are handled, with a completely new error handling mechanism added and -backported- to other prior versions?

        that doesn't smell right at all.

        and now a massive patch drops that MUST BE APPLIED NOW - so, intense pressure to comply without careful evaluation?

        call me paranoid, sure. but this doesn't fit what I expect to see, and I don't like it, and I am feeling very suspicious that the people making these decisions are having their decisionmaking compromised in some fashion.

        pikhq@social.treehouse.systemsP This user is from outside of this forum
        pikhq@social.treehouse.systemsP This user is from outside of this forum
        pikhq@social.treehouse.systems
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #5

        @munin i am pretty sure it was vibe coded. so.

        munin@infosec.exchangeM freya@social.highenergymagic.netF 2 Replies Last reply
        0
        • r@glauca.spaceR r@glauca.space

          @munin idk about claude, but we also believe "abort on OOM" is the correct behavior

          this is *already* a cgi-bin-inspired execution model, you are *perfectly suited* to just abort!

          munin@infosec.exchangeM This user is from outside of this forum
          munin@infosec.exchangeM This user is from outside of this forum
          munin@infosec.exchange
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #6

          @r

          right. it -doesn't make sense- to not adopt that, especially in a high pressure time constrained situation.

          something -isn't right-

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • pikhq@social.treehouse.systemsP pikhq@social.treehouse.systems

            @munin i am pretty sure it was vibe coded. so.

            munin@infosec.exchangeM This user is from outside of this forum
            munin@infosec.exchangeM This user is from outside of this forum
            munin@infosec.exchange
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #7

            @pikhq

            well yes that's obvious; you don't -get- that much code that fast without the connivance of that horseshit.

            argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.orgA 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • munin@infosec.exchangeM munin@infosec.exchange

              something that's been bothering me about the phpocalypse - which, talking with @rain I was able to put a pin in, after they pointed out what they would do in a similar situation - is that this doesn't feel like a security patch at all.

              this feels like a major feature upgrade.

              which is weird in the circumstances.

              the kind of patch that you would expect to see during a major all hands on deck kind of emergency would be the smallest, least-touch change possible - Rain suggested "abort on OOM" which is a nice sensible solution; sure it hits availability a little but in a way that synergizes nicely with defender goals (denying materiel to an attacker; reducing blast radius to "an instance becomes momentarily unavailable until the service gets restarted")

              instead, this has a massive rework of how OOM situations are handled, with a completely new error handling mechanism added and -backported- to other prior versions?

              that doesn't smell right at all.

              and now a massive patch drops that MUST BE APPLIED NOW - so, intense pressure to comply without careful evaluation?

              call me paranoid, sure. but this doesn't fit what I expect to see, and I don't like it, and I am feeling very suspicious that the people making these decisions are having their decisionmaking compromised in some fashion.

              freya@social.highenergymagic.netF This user is from outside of this forum
              freya@social.highenergymagic.netF This user is from outside of this forum
              freya@social.highenergymagic.net
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #8

              @munin @rain oh shit? I rather thoughgt it would be, yeah, a tiny little patch? huh

              munin@infosec.exchangeM 1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • astraluma@tacobelllabs.netA astraluma@tacobelllabs.net

                @munin esp a half assed solution that only touches _most_ of what needs to be touched

                astraluma@tacobelllabs.netA This user is from outside of this forum
                astraluma@tacobelllabs.netA This user is from outside of this forum
                astraluma@tacobelllabs.net
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #9

                @munin https://mastodon.social/@computerchronicles/117481495519273329

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • freya@social.highenergymagic.netF freya@social.highenergymagic.net

                  @munin @rain oh shit? I rather thoughgt it would be, yeah, a tiny little patch? huh

                  munin@infosec.exchangeM This user is from outside of this forum
                  munin@infosec.exchangeM This user is from outside of this forum
                  munin@infosec.exchange
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #10

                  @freya @rain

                  no it's fuckhuge

                  https://hails.org/@hailey/117479275107799652

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • pikhq@social.treehouse.systemsP pikhq@social.treehouse.systems

                    @munin i am pretty sure it was vibe coded. so.

                    freya@social.highenergymagic.netF This user is from outside of this forum
                    freya@social.highenergymagic.netF This user is from outside of this forum
                    freya@social.highenergymagic.net
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #11

                    @pikhq @munin siiiiiiiiiigh. I use AI code, for brand new projects. I would fucking never try to bolt on AI-generated code to a pre-existing codebase, that's insane

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • munin@infosec.exchangeM munin@infosec.exchange

                      something that's been bothering me about the phpocalypse - which, talking with @rain I was able to put a pin in, after they pointed out what they would do in a similar situation - is that this doesn't feel like a security patch at all.

                      this feels like a major feature upgrade.

                      which is weird in the circumstances.

                      the kind of patch that you would expect to see during a major all hands on deck kind of emergency would be the smallest, least-touch change possible - Rain suggested "abort on OOM" which is a nice sensible solution; sure it hits availability a little but in a way that synergizes nicely with defender goals (denying materiel to an attacker; reducing blast radius to "an instance becomes momentarily unavailable until the service gets restarted")

                      instead, this has a massive rework of how OOM situations are handled, with a completely new error handling mechanism added and -backported- to other prior versions?

                      that doesn't smell right at all.

                      and now a massive patch drops that MUST BE APPLIED NOW - so, intense pressure to comply without careful evaluation?

                      call me paranoid, sure. but this doesn't fit what I expect to see, and I don't like it, and I am feeling very suspicious that the people making these decisions are having their decisionmaking compromised in some fashion.

                      ajroach42@retro.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                      ajroach42@retro.socialA This user is from outside of this forum
                      ajroach42@retro.social
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #12

                      @munin @rain certainly smells like claude to me.

                      supermoosie@mastodon.auS 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • ajroach42@retro.socialA ajroach42@retro.social

                        @munin @rain certainly smells like claude to me.

                        supermoosie@mastodon.auS This user is from outside of this forum
                        supermoosie@mastodon.auS This user is from outside of this forum
                        supermoosie@mastodon.au
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #13

                        @ajroach42 @munin @rain

                        Write up said it was found by researchers using AI.

                        The solution was also AI created.

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • munin@infosec.exchangeM munin@infosec.exchange

                          @pikhq

                          well yes that's obvious; you don't -get- that much code that fast without the connivance of that horseshit.

                          argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.orgA This user is from outside of this forum
                          argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.orgA This user is from outside of this forum
                          argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org
                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                          #14

                          @munin

                          Fast? They reportedly worked on this patch for like 2 months.

                          @pikhq

                          munin@infosec.exchangeM jernej__s@infosec.exchangeJ 2 Replies Last reply
                          0
                          • r@glauca.spaceR r@glauca.space

                            @munin idk about claude, but we also believe "abort on OOM" is the correct behavior

                            this is *already* a cgi-bin-inspired execution model, you are *perfectly suited* to just abort!

                            argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.orgA This user is from outside of this forum
                            argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.orgA This user is from outside of this forum
                            argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org
                            wrote sidst redigeret af
                            #15

                            @r

                            I mean, I can see why you'd want to do something more intelligent than yolobort on OOM, but…maybe do that later, after the immediate RCE threat is resolved and nobody's hair is on fire? Most PHP programs will never OOM, like, ever, so…

                            @munin

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • munin@infosec.exchangeM munin@infosec.exchange

                              something that's been bothering me about the phpocalypse - which, talking with @rain I was able to put a pin in, after they pointed out what they would do in a similar situation - is that this doesn't feel like a security patch at all.

                              this feels like a major feature upgrade.

                              which is weird in the circumstances.

                              the kind of patch that you would expect to see during a major all hands on deck kind of emergency would be the smallest, least-touch change possible - Rain suggested "abort on OOM" which is a nice sensible solution; sure it hits availability a little but in a way that synergizes nicely with defender goals (denying materiel to an attacker; reducing blast radius to "an instance becomes momentarily unavailable until the service gets restarted")

                              instead, this has a massive rework of how OOM situations are handled, with a completely new error handling mechanism added and -backported- to other prior versions?

                              that doesn't smell right at all.

                              and now a massive patch drops that MUST BE APPLIED NOW - so, intense pressure to comply without careful evaluation?

                              call me paranoid, sure. but this doesn't fit what I expect to see, and I don't like it, and I am feeling very suspicious that the people making these decisions are having their decisionmaking compromised in some fashion.

                              wearwolf@kind.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
                              wearwolf@kind.socialW This user is from outside of this forum
                              wearwolf@kind.social
                              wrote sidst redigeret af
                              #16

                              @munin @rain that is concerning

                              I also assumed it was a small change to handle the specific issue

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • munin@infosec.exchangeM munin@infosec.exchange

                                something that's been bothering me about the phpocalypse - which, talking with @rain I was able to put a pin in, after they pointed out what they would do in a similar situation - is that this doesn't feel like a security patch at all.

                                this feels like a major feature upgrade.

                                which is weird in the circumstances.

                                the kind of patch that you would expect to see during a major all hands on deck kind of emergency would be the smallest, least-touch change possible - Rain suggested "abort on OOM" which is a nice sensible solution; sure it hits availability a little but in a way that synergizes nicely with defender goals (denying materiel to an attacker; reducing blast radius to "an instance becomes momentarily unavailable until the service gets restarted")

                                instead, this has a massive rework of how OOM situations are handled, with a completely new error handling mechanism added and -backported- to other prior versions?

                                that doesn't smell right at all.

                                and now a massive patch drops that MUST BE APPLIED NOW - so, intense pressure to comply without careful evaluation?

                                call me paranoid, sure. but this doesn't fit what I expect to see, and I don't like it, and I am feeling very suspicious that the people making these decisions are having their decisionmaking compromised in some fashion.

                                hailey@hails.orgH This user is from outside of this forum
                                hailey@hails.orgH This user is from outside of this forum
                                hailey@hails.org
                                wrote sidst redigeret af
                                #17

                                @munin @rain this is the take 👍

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • munin@infosec.exchangeM munin@infosec.exchange

                                  something that's been bothering me about the phpocalypse - which, talking with @rain I was able to put a pin in, after they pointed out what they would do in a similar situation - is that this doesn't feel like a security patch at all.

                                  this feels like a major feature upgrade.

                                  which is weird in the circumstances.

                                  the kind of patch that you would expect to see during a major all hands on deck kind of emergency would be the smallest, least-touch change possible - Rain suggested "abort on OOM" which is a nice sensible solution; sure it hits availability a little but in a way that synergizes nicely with defender goals (denying materiel to an attacker; reducing blast radius to "an instance becomes momentarily unavailable until the service gets restarted")

                                  instead, this has a massive rework of how OOM situations are handled, with a completely new error handling mechanism added and -backported- to other prior versions?

                                  that doesn't smell right at all.

                                  and now a massive patch drops that MUST BE APPLIED NOW - so, intense pressure to comply without careful evaluation?

                                  call me paranoid, sure. but this doesn't fit what I expect to see, and I don't like it, and I am feeling very suspicious that the people making these decisions are having their decisionmaking compromised in some fashion.

                                  amy@sk.girlthi.ngA This user is from outside of this forum
                                  amy@sk.girlthi.ngA This user is from outside of this forum
                                  amy@sk.girlthi.ng
                                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                                  #18

                                  @munin@infosec.exchange @rain@hachyderm.io it sure would be convenient if openai could be the saviour of everything once more in 6 months when it’s revealed the silly humans couldn’t patch properly, or something

                                  i mean this entire thing was already used to prop up oai as it is

                                  1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • munin@infosec.exchangeM munin@infosec.exchange

                                    something that's been bothering me about the phpocalypse - which, talking with @rain I was able to put a pin in, after they pointed out what they would do in a similar situation - is that this doesn't feel like a security patch at all.

                                    this feels like a major feature upgrade.

                                    which is weird in the circumstances.

                                    the kind of patch that you would expect to see during a major all hands on deck kind of emergency would be the smallest, least-touch change possible - Rain suggested "abort on OOM" which is a nice sensible solution; sure it hits availability a little but in a way that synergizes nicely with defender goals (denying materiel to an attacker; reducing blast radius to "an instance becomes momentarily unavailable until the service gets restarted")

                                    instead, this has a massive rework of how OOM situations are handled, with a completely new error handling mechanism added and -backported- to other prior versions?

                                    that doesn't smell right at all.

                                    and now a massive patch drops that MUST BE APPLIED NOW - so, intense pressure to comply without careful evaluation?

                                    call me paranoid, sure. but this doesn't fit what I expect to see, and I don't like it, and I am feeling very suspicious that the people making these decisions are having their decisionmaking compromised in some fashion.

                                    cb@social.treehouse.systemsC This user is from outside of this forum
                                    cb@social.treehouse.systemsC This user is from outside of this forum
                                    cb@social.treehouse.systems
                                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                                    #19

                                    @munin @rain abort on OOM would have higher blast radius for threaded SAPIs, i.e. mod_php with non-forking MPM

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.orgA argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org

                                      @munin

                                      Fast? They reportedly worked on this patch for like 2 months.

                                      @pikhq

                                      munin@infosec.exchangeM This user is from outside of this forum
                                      munin@infosec.exchangeM This user is from outside of this forum
                                      munin@infosec.exchange
                                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                                      #20

                                      @argv_minus_one @pikhq

                                      have you seen the size of the thing?

                                      argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.orgA 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • munin@infosec.exchangeM munin@infosec.exchange

                                        @argv_minus_one @pikhq

                                        have you seen the size of the thing?

                                        argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.orgA This user is from outside of this forum
                                        argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.orgA This user is from outside of this forum
                                        argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org
                                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                                        #21

                                        @munin

                                        No, although I've heard the rumors.

                                        But like, it doesn't take 2 months for a bot to generate something.

                                        @pikhq

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.orgA argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.org

                                          @munin

                                          Fast? They reportedly worked on this patch for like 2 months.

                                          @pikhq

                                          jernej__s@infosec.exchangeJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                          jernej__s@infosec.exchangeJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                          jernej__s@infosec.exchange
                                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                                          #22

                                          @argv_minus_one @munin @pikhq See https://chitter.xyz/@JennyFluff/117481147340068318

                                          argv_minus_one@mastodon.sdf.orgA 1 Reply Last reply
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