People are cheapskates with poor people but spendthrift with billionaires.
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@futurebird @ehproque
We have some trucks that have one guy driving with a robotic arm to pickup the trash. They're cool but not faster than the trucks with two guys on the back grabbing bins from both sides of the street at once. I expect their maintenance and down time is more, though. It's possible we have fewer people here interested in the work and more distance to cover so maybe it's worth it. And our streets are way less crowded so one truck looping around multiple times is less ...@futurebird @ehproque
...disruptive. But I like seeing all the guys on the trucks. I'd rather pay them than my health insurance CEO. -
This whole thing where they are so excited to eliminate real honorable work, like taking care of old people and taking away the garbage at ANY COST transmits a kind of deep disrespect for real work that I just can't abide. It is so deeply anti-social.
I love high tech solutions and robots. These things can make this work faster, and more effective. It can make the work safer. DSNY die in the line of duty all the time.
We should talk about that more.
@futurebird @ehproque
We have some trucks that have one guy driving with a robotic arm to pickup the trash. They're cool but not faster than the trucks with two guys on the back grabbing bins from both sides of the street at once. I expect their maintenance and down time is more, though. It's possible we have fewer people here interested in the work and more distance to cover so maybe it's worth it. And our streets are way less crowded so one truck looping around multiple times is less ... -
@futurebird That's so weird. In the UK I've never seen less than a small crew per truck and they get the job done fast. Why would anyone want that service but worse?
We love making things worse in America. Like having one person trying to run an entire pharmacy. (here our "chemists" don't just fill prescriptions but there is a whole connivence store too kind of like Boots in there too. They want to just have one person do this whole thing.)
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People are cheapskates with poor people but spendthrift with billionaires.
I just listened to someone complaining about how "the garbage union" has schemed so that there are always two people operating NYC garbage trucks to "waste my tax dollars" and I guess making too many wealthy sanitation workers... oh no the horror.
I like that there are two people on each truck. It's more efficient and safer. But, even if it was somehow a waste I promise you that's not who is wasting your money bud.
@futurebird of all the public services, bins and sewage workers are surely the most incredibly under-recognised
Overall they probably improve society even more than doctors
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We love making things worse in America. Like having one person trying to run an entire pharmacy. (here our "chemists" don't just fill prescriptions but there is a whole connivence store too kind of like Boots in there too. They want to just have one person do this whole thing.)
@futurebird Seriously?? One person in a busy pharmacy is normal? That sucks.
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Maybe it just because it's the kind of thing that seems "smart" that's how most media frame it.
If I had a dime for every guy who has said to me "the largest expense for a business is payroll" like it was some kind of revelation maybe I'd be rich enough that I'd understand how they think about jobs.
Of course the largest expense is payroll! If it isn't what is your company even doing? Probably not anything of value.
@futurebird @billiglarper
They're thinking of people as overhead rather than coworkers. Like rent or office supplies. -
@futurebird Seriously?? One person in a busy pharmacy is normal? That sucks.
@thejessiekirk @futurebird even the abusive little crooks I worked for in a small pharm had two for the evening-midnight shift
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"I didn't know that garbage trucks with rear tippers aren't standard in NY, with trash often getting put out in trash bags.
"We live like primitive cavemen in this town. It's absurd.
But how can you back up to pick up a dumpster on a one way street? There is no "back of the building" in NYC. The back of the building is the front of another building.
Not sure I understand the question correctly.
Over here, the garbage gets picked up at the front side of the building. Folks generally roll their bins to the sidewalk the evening before, and roll the empty bins back afterwards.
(There's a compromise where the bins get placed on the property close to the street. Also comes with its own kind of architecture to hide the bins a bit. *)
* https://www.abfallberatung-unterfranken.de/bilddatenbank.html?image=2974
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I'm struggling to even getting myself into the headspace where two people working a truck is upsetting to me.
Maybe this person works for UPS or some delivery company where drivers work alone and it is often *very dangerous*. (but just workable I guess? They still block traffic all the time) and they want everyone to suffer?
How do you look at a $7,000,000 patriot missile and get mad about more people being employed in the very honorable and *life-saving* work of collecting garbage?
@futurebird things that actually need doing: making food, minding shops, taking the garbage, emergency services, building and maintaining housing…
Things that only arguably might need doing: creation of weapons of war, patrolling the sea beside another continent entirely, incarcerating people… -
Not sure I understand the question correctly.
Over here, the garbage gets picked up at the front side of the building. Folks generally roll their bins to the sidewalk the evening before, and roll the empty bins back afterwards.
(There's a compromise where the bins get placed on the property close to the street. Also comes with its own kind of architecture to hide the bins a bit. *)
* https://www.abfallberatung-unterfranken.de/bilddatenbank.html?image=2974
In one way streets, the garbage truck will simply drive through the one way street at slow speed.
The folk at the back will roll the containers from the sidewalk to the back of the garbage truck, empty them, and roll them back.
As this takes a while, the one way street will be blocked for a few minutes.
In a cul-de-sac, things might take longer.
Or if people park their cars like assholes in tiny old town streets.
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@futurebird @baishen @billiglarper Back in the 1980s, university systems allocated mainframe computing resources with various token systems. Georgia called them bananas.
BTW, that system gave way to PCs, which were nowhere near as powerful as the mainframes, but which didn't need to be managed with micro payments. I suspect generative AI token services will go the same way.
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Not sure I understand the question correctly.
Over here, the garbage gets picked up at the front side of the building. Folks generally roll their bins to the sidewalk the evening before, and roll the empty bins back afterwards.
(There's a compromise where the bins get placed on the property close to the street. Also comes with its own kind of architecture to hide the bins a bit. *)
* https://www.abfallberatung-unterfranken.de/bilddatenbank.html?image=2974
Our bins don't really have any designated place to go. They are put on the street or sidewalk which is horrible. The city is trying to change this by making some parking spots into pick up areas but it means that we needed a truck that could lift a dumpster from the side.
These existed for single bins, but not full dumpsters. So we have our own new trucks now and they are very cool.
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It's absolutely depressing.
Perhaps they are projecting? The want to take advantage of others, so they see others taking advantage of them all the time? Pehaps reinforced by their own unhappyness in life? Like they think they would be "deserving" of more status, but "they" are keeping them down?
And it's doubly frustrating by how stupid it is. A driver and a collector is the bare minimum to be efficient. Anybody who has seen the speed at wich they work should know this.
@billiglarper @futurebird German garbage trucks have 3-5 people working them in some areas, it is amazing to see how fast they can work that way.
If you think unions are giving others "unfair" benefits? JOIN A F'ING UNION MY MAN!
Be "unfair" yourself.
Incredible stupid. -
@futurebird @billiglarper That last paragraph goes perfectly with this. :-D
@baishen @futurebird @billiglarper Altmann is scary.
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People are cheapskates with poor people but spendthrift with billionaires.
I just listened to someone complaining about how "the garbage union" has schemed so that there are always two people operating NYC garbage trucks to "waste my tax dollars" and I guess making too many wealthy sanitation workers... oh no the horror.
I like that there are two people on each truck. It's more efficient and safer. But, even if it was somehow a waste I promise you that's not who is wasting your money bud.
@futurebird When I worked in recycling it was a treat to go out on the rounds, making a load of noise, slowing down the traffic, just getting out the shed for a while. A few years after I left, an old colleague had a fatal heart attack while working on those kind of trucks. Two workers should be the minimum for a whole load of reasons.
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Maybe it just because it's the kind of thing that seems "smart" that's how most media frame it.
If I had a dime for every guy who has said to me "the largest expense for a business is payroll" like it was some kind of revelation maybe I'd be rich enough that I'd understand how they think about jobs.
Of course the largest expense is payroll! If it isn't what is your company even doing? Probably not anything of value.
@futurebird @billiglarper hmm… not always. I helped build semiconductor fabs & was stunned at what the tools in them cost. Like, 90% of the capital spend was Inside, 10% for the huge building. Fab operators made $20/ hr tending machines costing $50-200 *million*.
Art galleries, fabs, jewelers, drugs: when the stuff going in or going out is unique or hard to produce, they can outweigh payroll.
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Our bins don't really have any designated place to go. They are put on the street or sidewalk which is horrible. The city is trying to change this by making some parking spots into pick up areas but it means that we needed a truck that could lift a dumpster from the side.
These existed for single bins, but not full dumpsters. So we have our own new trucks now and they are very cool.
Oh, I see.
One difference might be that even the dumpsters are smaller over here. More like the width of two wheelie bins.
So the folks on the garbage trucks can roll them onto the street and back again.
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@futurebird @billiglarper hmm… not always. I helped build semiconductor fabs & was stunned at what the tools in them cost. Like, 90% of the capital spend was Inside, 10% for the huge building. Fab operators made $20/ hr tending machines costing $50-200 *million*.
Art galleries, fabs, jewelers, drugs: when the stuff going in or going out is unique or hard to produce, they can outweigh payroll.
@futurebird @billiglarper Ew. That means data centers, too (a building full of hardware = expensive stuff going IN; plz don’t beat me up on worth of what’ll go out)
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@baishen Perhaps I don’t understand how business works, but “my half-million dollar employee had better cost me three quarters of a million dollars or I’m gonna be pissed” is a hell of a take. @futurebird @billiglarper
@adhdeanasl @futurebird @billiglarper It's more about propping up the AI bubble and convincing people to keep dumping money into it.
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Our bins don't really have any designated place to go. They are put on the street or sidewalk which is horrible. The city is trying to change this by making some parking spots into pick up areas but it means that we needed a truck that could lift a dumpster from the side.
These existed for single bins, but not full dumpsters. So we have our own new trucks now and they are very cool.
I’ve been wondering for a little while if motorised wheely bins could be a real thing. Once a week, a truck blocks the road and slowly empties them all. But what if each one had motorised wheels, a battery, and a little bit of electronics, so once a week at, say 2am, they could all take drive themselves to a centralised collecting area. The batteries could be swapped out if needed and recharged, and then they’d be sent home.
It doesn’t matter if it takes them an hour or so to get there and in smallish convoys they’d be easy to spot and overtake. If they go at a bit over walking speed, they’re no danger to people crossing the road, and at 2am they don’t need to avoid too much traffic. If you don’t want people to have to empty them overnight, just send out a clean replacement rather than sending it back: people don’t need to have the same bin every week and it’s fine to send the ones from Monday’ collection area back to Tuesday’s area the next night after they’ve been emptied, charged, and cleaned.
Probably wouldn’t work somewhere as dense as NYC, since they’d need to be able to reach the road, but might even work there if you let them out in the evening and they trundle away as soon as traffic density drops low enough.
