Recently I read a post by some jackhole techbro who wants a default automatic feed algorithm here just like Big Social™.
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@DazRunner @lisamelton Looking at your profile, you are currently following 7 people, so your feed will consist of posts and boosts by those 7 people, plus anything you post or boost. If you want a better feed, you will need to follow more people. It takes time to curate your own feed - you are the algorithm.
Hi Hollie,
Thanks
you're right. I am following a small subset of the community. I only joined in the past day or two. There's a beauty to creating your own personalized feed from scratch. I understand this. However, it takes time, energy and expertise. For a poweruser it'll be obvious and natural.
This engenders an element of the 'curse of knowledge' though imo. Where users assume knowledge and skill on behalf of others. I want the community to be my algorithm
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Recently I read a post by some jackhole techbro who wants a default automatic feed algorithm here just like Big Social
.Opening the door for AI bullshit is not even the worst part of this idea.
Folks, all of us here ARE the algorithm. Personal curation is a feature, not a bug.
We make Mastodon awesome by following people and boosting what we find meaningful, significant or just cool. That's how it works.
Let's keep making friends. Let's keep sharing. Let's keep Mastodon alive. Together.
@lisamelton no one stops him to build his own fork and implement such an algorithm.
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Recently I read a post by some jackhole techbro who wants a default automatic feed algorithm here just like Big Social
.Opening the door for AI bullshit is not even the worst part of this idea.
Folks, all of us here ARE the algorithm. Personal curation is a feature, not a bug.
We make Mastodon awesome by following people and boosting what we find meaningful, significant or just cool. That's how it works.
Let's keep making friends. Let's keep sharing. Let's keep Mastodon alive. Together.
@lisamelton but we do have an automatic default feed algorithm!
That the default automatic feed algorithm is "posts of accounts you follow in chronological order" is beside the point, it's still an algorithm, it's still the default, and it's still automatic.
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Hi Hollie,
Thanks
you're right. I am following a small subset of the community. I only joined in the past day or two. There's a beauty to creating your own personalized feed from scratch. I understand this. However, it takes time, energy and expertise. For a poweruser it'll be obvious and natural.
This engenders an element of the 'curse of knowledge' though imo. Where users assume knowledge and skill on behalf of others. I want the community to be my algorithm
@DazRunner @lisamelton I'm not actually sure what point you are making when you say "I want the community to be my algorithm." You can choose who to follow for your personal feed, and in addition Trending will show you the more popular posts, and Live Feeds gives you the options of seeing your server's posts, or posts on other servers.
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Recently I read a post by some jackhole techbro who wants a default automatic feed algorithm here just like Big Social
.Opening the door for AI bullshit is not even the worst part of this idea.
Folks, all of us here ARE the algorithm. Personal curation is a feature, not a bug.
We make Mastodon awesome by following people and boosting what we find meaningful, significant or just cool. That's how it works.
Let's keep making friends. Let's keep sharing. Let's keep Mastodon alive. Together.
@lisamelton Naaa we're good.
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@FallsMom @lisamelton (I saw it because of an algorithm: the trending tab)
I can understand if people are overwhelmed by posts in their timeline because they're following people that post a lot. They may want to continue following them but get fewer things, and there could be room for a "less of this"/"more of this" personal curator thingy. The key is letting it be completely controlled by the user, and transparent. It might still not be a good idea, but worth exploring.
@ahltorp @FallsMom @lisamelton Why not just stop following overly prolific people?
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@lisamelton and a "popular things algorithm" would not solve the actual issue of missing posts from not particularly popular accounts who nonetheless post super interesting stuff, especially if they are not in your timezone.
For that, the best solution I found is RSS. If there's someone whose posts I don't want to miss, I just add their RSS feed to my reader, then I'm sure to see them even if I only log in ten hours later and nobody boosts it. Being in control like that is nice.
@AFoucart @lisamelton there's also the "Notify me when USER posts" button which is useful to keep track of low volume users posts.
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@DazRunner @lisamelton I'm not actually sure what point you are making when you say "I want the community to be my algorithm." You can choose who to follow for your personal feed, and in addition Trending will show you the more popular posts, and Live Feeds gives you the options of seeing your server's posts, or posts on other servers.
Thanks, Hollie. I'm a noob so i'll learn as i go.
There's a dichotomy here IMO. Part of being in a community means you surrender some control and allow that community to make some decisions on your behalf. For the greater good.
Segmenting users into filter bubbles algorithmically on SM has had a negative impact on society. And is a tool of manipulation.
How about a feed filter though? Eg. Only show posts on my feed that have received some engagement etc.
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@lisamelton but we do have an automatic default feed algorithm!
That the default automatic feed algorithm is "posts of accounts you follow in chronological order" is beside the point, it's still an algorithm, it's still the default, and it's still automatic.
@pmb00cs @lisamelton It's a bit pedantic but I wanted to make the same point. I know people are afraid of slippery slopes but algorithms aren't inherently evil. Presumably the current algorithm also ranks posts that were reported a number of times lower than others? If not, I'd say that would be quite a sensible use of the technology.
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@Atoro @lisamelton @hypebot ... but can it only do this by violating the 'trust' of the users who don't want their posts used for such things?
I should be clear that I am /not/ one of those users, but I know they exist.
@mikebabcock @lisamelton @hypebot if someone doesn’t want their toots processed by that bot, they can use the #nobot hashtag in their profile. Or just block the user. I find that acceptable. Maybe their should be a native mastodon privacy setting for bot control, but as long as that doesn’t exist, I am personally fine with that.
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Thanks, Hollie. I'm a noob so i'll learn as i go.
There's a dichotomy here IMO. Part of being in a community means you surrender some control and allow that community to make some decisions on your behalf. For the greater good.
Segmenting users into filter bubbles algorithmically on SM has had a negative impact on society. And is a tool of manipulation.
How about a feed filter though? Eg. Only show posts on my feed that have received some engagement etc.
@DazRunner @lisamelton The feed filter that you are describing is the Trending feed, and you can visit that at any time.
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Recently I read a post by some jackhole techbro who wants a default automatic feed algorithm here just like Big Social
.Opening the door for AI bullshit is not even the worst part of this idea.
Folks, all of us here ARE the algorithm. Personal curation is a feature, not a bug.
We make Mastodon awesome by following people and boosting what we find meaningful, significant or just cool. That's how it works.
Let's keep making friends. Let's keep sharing. Let's keep Mastodon alive. Together.
@lisamelton
Amen, sister, Amen. -
@pmb00cs @lisamelton It's a bit pedantic but I wanted to make the same point. I know people are afraid of slippery slopes but algorithms aren't inherently evil. Presumably the current algorithm also ranks posts that were reported a number of times lower than others? If not, I'd say that would be quite a sensible use of the technology.
@TimothyRoes @lisamelton I would like to point out that when I joined Facebook that was the default feed algorithm, when I joined Twitter that was the default feed algorithm. Now them changing that default wasn't why I left those platforms, but it certainly didn't help.
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hi david, thanks.
I think my misunderstanding stemmed from the fact that, i'm following a popular hashtag with numerous low quality posts. All of which are appearing on my feed. I'm also getting same entity posts
I realise there's a beauty behind a manually selected feed. Many Social Networks will use a hybrid model of a personalised selection and algorithmic filtering.
Noone wants #mastodon to become another Facebook. Let's respect (and learn from) our foe?
I think my misunderstanding stemmed from the fact that, i'm following a popular hashtag with numerous low quality posts.
One of the things I don't like about Mastodon is that following is completely binary. You either see everything or nothing. I'd like to be able to say something like 'show me the posts in this hash tag with more than N favourites' or 'show me a random selection of 10% of what this person posts, weighted by boost + favourite count'.
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@ahltorp @FallsMom @lisamelton Why not just stop following overly prolific people?
@JankaWessman @FallsMom @lisamelton Because you like what they write? Or you like some of it? Or specifically don’t like or don’t care about some of it? Or it might not be one prolific person, but the combined effect of many.
A lot of people here use filters and other selective mutes. Can’t we help people do that, or do we as a collective think that’s only for ”advanced users”?
Maybe there is no good way of doing this, but other than the effort, what is lost by trying?
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@AFoucart @lisamelton there's also the "Notify me when USER posts" button which is useful to keep track of low volume users posts.
@jmcs @lisamelton yes, but "more notifications" is not really something I want on my phone
I'd rather choose when I check for updates! -
@TimothyRoes @lisamelton I would like to point out that when I joined Facebook that was the default feed algorithm, when I joined Twitter that was the default feed algorithm. Now them changing that default wasn't why I left those platforms, but it certainly didn't help.
@pmb00cs @lisamelton Agreed, but I think the best guarantee is that this platform is not driven by profit and is built on an open protocol so people who don't like where things are going can vote with their feet. All that said Lisa's main point was that we should promote toots by boosting and reacting to them and that I totally agree with
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Recently I read a post by some jackhole techbro who wants a default automatic feed algorithm here just like Big Social
.Opening the door for AI bullshit is not even the worst part of this idea.
Folks, all of us here ARE the algorithm. Personal curation is a feature, not a bug.
We make Mastodon awesome by following people and boosting what we find meaningful, significant or just cool. That's how it works.
Let's keep making friends. Let's keep sharing. Let's keep Mastodon alive. Together.
@lisamelton I think that should be explained at the beginning of the adventure with Mastodon, because now it makes sense what's the purpose of boosting. The users being "the algorithm" makes a ton of sense, but coming from corporate SM I didn't know that model so I didn't boost anything.
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Recently I read a post by some jackhole techbro who wants a default automatic feed algorithm here just like Big Social
.Opening the door for AI bullshit is not even the worst part of this idea.
Folks, all of us here ARE the algorithm. Personal curation is a feature, not a bug.
We make Mastodon awesome by following people and boosting what we find meaningful, significant or just cool. That's how it works.
Let's keep making friends. Let's keep sharing. Let's keep Mastodon alive. Together.
@lisamelton
really? Bringing machine algorithm to mastodon? I think it's outright impossible, and my words are the same as yours! -
Yes! And how did I see this post? A boost from a friend (yay!), not from an algorithm !
@FallsMom @lisamelton i saw this post on trending tab. So it's technically an algorithm?
