On first glance (pre-caffeine) it looks like there are a bunch of mansplainers doing math to defend Reflect Orbital in my mentions.
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@sundogplanets @knud @Legit_Spaghetti
afaik from my wife, usually only launch failures are insured ("hull"), not liability of operating a satellite.
@sundogplanets @knud @Legit_Spaghetti
reconfirmed: space liability is typical not insured/insurable. nor is manned space flight/space tourism (yet). environmental impact on global scale (including humans, eg by planned reentries in a massive scale) is not insured/insurable/covered.
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@sundogplanets @Legit_Spaghetti
Uncharted territory.
Similarly unclear whether it's a crime to take my 500kW laser to fry Reflect Orbital sat's communication antenna...
@knud @sundogplanets @Legit_Spaghetti
There are a bunch of rules about not interfering with satellite radio communications or cameras with radar beams or lasers.
I know this because they apply to planetary radar observations.
So we end up with a temporary drop-out whenever a Starlink crosses the beam.
Going in the other direction, who knows?
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@sundogplanets If Congress has any say, they'll just put warning labels on telescopes and ban amateur astronomy.
@gooba42 @sundogplanets This product is known to the state of California to cause blindness
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@sundogplanets buncha dicks with dicks being dicks, as the prophecies foretold. But seriously, why guys? Piles of reflective shit in LEO is a bad idea, regardless of the reason for it, and beaming sunlight down from orbit is absurd.
Grift. Pure and simple. Watch out, there's a pump and dump coming your way.
Someone in RO is connected to the administration, either directly or indirectly. maybe through bitcoin.
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@knud @sundogplanets @Legit_Spaghetti It should be at least reciprocal. If they can shine light at me destroying my telescope, I can shine light at them destroying their satellite.
@hannorein @knud @sundogplanets @Legit_Spaghetti if you just set up a mirror on the ground that happens to reflect the orbital mirror's light back at it, who could complain?
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@sundogplanets ah regrettably they say they would only be able to find something that's public, and this info wouldn't be something that's public. However, they tell me it's entirely possible - even probable - Reflect wouldn't yet have bought third party liability insurance, given they've only just received approval. They would have to have it prior to launch yes, but not required before getting approval.
@sundogplanets they also say different parts of the operation are likely to have different insurers. Payload and TPL insurance likely won't be from the same place
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On a more serious note, does anyone know how to find out who is insuring Reflect Orbital? Seems like they might want to know the company they're insuring admitted in an official FCC document that they could cause permanent eye damage to people who look at their satellite through a telescope...
@sundogplanets REALLY good question.
Insurers have historically kept a rein on more sketchy launch companies, since a rocket going wrong has some rather obvious externalities. I have a feeling RO's insurer will learn about their externalities very quickly.
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On a more serious note, does anyone know how to find out who is insuring Reflect Orbital? Seems like they might want to know the company they're insuring admitted in an official FCC document that they could cause permanent eye damage to people who look at their satellite through a telescope...
Excellent thought.
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Please forgive the ignorant question: Are we sure that Reflect Orbital or their insurers would even be liable under current statutes and treaties?
@DaveMWilburn not only RO, but the regulator that approved them because they know about the possibility of the eye damage. It will be interesting to see how many other countries file for injunctions based on the because presumably, this stupid thing will cause eye damage all over the world
@sundogplanets -
@sundogplanets ah regrettably they say they would only be able to find something that's public, and this info wouldn't be something that's public. However, they tell me it's entirely possible - even probable - Reflect wouldn't yet have bought third party liability insurance, given they've only just received approval. They would have to have it prior to launch yes, but not required before getting approval.
@http_error_418 would they at least need to have an insurance quote to support any financials or regulations required as part of the approval process? (Asking because I have seen this enumerated in CO2 storage permits, not because I know anything about space.)
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On first glance (pre-caffeine) it looks like there are a bunch of mansplainers doing math to defend Reflect Orbital in my mentions. FANTASTIC.
(Editing to add that reading more carefully, I think most of it is actually well-intentioned discussion trying to understand how the hell RO thinks they have any kind of business case. But I am extra grumpy because it's hot. No blocking needed.)
Good morning to everyone except the people defending or funding Reflect Orbital.
@sundogplanets
I'm going to laugh if Earth gets nuked by aliens after the blinding device is mistaken for a weapon.Yes, I know this isn't an exceptionally intelligent thought or post. But it did make me chuckle a little at the idea.
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@michael_w_busch @sundogplanets
The central challenge here is that space might be different in statutes and treaty. My (possibly mistaken) impression is that companies aren't liable for damages from space debris under international treaties. But I don't know how that would impact liability for non-debris-related damage from space-based equipment malfunctions. Maybe the company is liable, or maybe you have to fight the United States Government, or maybe this stupid company can just blind people from space and there's nothing you can do about it. I just don't know.
@DaveMWilburn @michael_w_busch @sundogplanets there's a significant difference between accidental debris and deliberate negligence
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@sundogplanets I am wondering: is space sabotage already a thing? If not, these reflectors really ask for it.
@nofollownoindex @sundogplanets
What happens WHEN (not if) the Russian hackers take control of the panels and aim all of them at Washington. This assuming that we have an administration at a future date that is no longer a Russian asset.
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Please forgive the ignorant question: Are we sure that Reflect Orbital or their insurers would even be liable under current statutes and treaties?
@DaveMWilburn @sundogplanets 150+ legal systems. Pick one.
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@sundogplanets
I'm going to laugh if Earth gets nuked by aliens after the blinding device is mistaken for a weapon.Yes, I know this isn't an exceptionally intelligent thought or post. But it did make me chuckle a little at the idea.
@Cassandra_Complex I'd read that scifi book
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@DaveMWilburn not only RO, but the regulator that approved them because they know about the possibility of the eye damage. It will be interesting to see how many other countries file for injunctions based on the because presumably, this stupid thing will cause eye damage all over the world
@sundogplanets@LynnD @sundogplanets I'm not sure this specific regulator in question, the FCC, has jurisdiction over visual spectrum space-based blinding, just RF spectrum. I don't know that we have a regulator governing that.
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On a more serious note, does anyone know how to find out who is insuring Reflect Orbital? Seems like they might want to know the company they're insuring admitted in an official FCC document that they could cause permanent eye damage to people who look at their satellite through a telescope...
@sundogplanets
Me trying to get away from the space sun beam after ratio'ing a tech bro. -
@LynnD @sundogplanets I'm not sure this specific regulator in question, the FCC, has jurisdiction over visual spectrum space-based blinding, just RF spectrum. I don't know that we have a regulator governing that.
N.B., I'm not defending or excusing the absolute bullshit that's happening here.
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On first glance (pre-caffeine) it looks like there are a bunch of mansplainers doing math to defend Reflect Orbital in my mentions. FANTASTIC.
(Editing to add that reading more carefully, I think most of it is actually well-intentioned discussion trying to understand how the hell RO thinks they have any kind of business case. But I am extra grumpy because it's hot. No blocking needed.)
Good morning to everyone except the people defending or funding Reflect Orbital.
@sundogplanets How _does_ RO intend to make money?
I highly suspect this is a fine example of the underpants gnomes.
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On a more serious note, does anyone know how to find out who is insuring Reflect Orbital? Seems like they might want to know the company they're insuring admitted in an official FCC document that they could cause permanent eye damage to people who look at their satellite through a telescope...
@sundogplanets It's a question worth asking in interviews too; and not just eye damage (which is of course worse!); a lot of expensive gear is pointed at the sky and they could damage all of it as well.
