I will hear a leftist say "if it had not been for tikTok ..." or "if it had not been for twitter ...
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@dnkboston @joepie91 @foolishowl @futurebird
I've seen harassment, I've been harassed. That's what the block button is for.
@FranceskaMann @dnkboston @foolishowl @futurebird Don't. Don't oversimplify this into "just block them".
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@futurebird @dnkboston @joepie91 I've wrestled with this a lot, since a few years ago I was in a largish left group and was astonished how dependent it was on "free" commercial software, especially Google Docs. Most of the tech people in the group argued for using self-hosted FOSS software, but the majority pushed back hard against that idea.
I pointed out to an outspoken role-playing game designer, on her Discord channel, that there was a Fediverse instance focused on games that I knew several game designers were on, and others focused on issues she cared about, but she and others in the channel complained that anyone could set up a Fediverse instance.
A few weeks ago I was talking to an animal rights activist who was publishing updates on Instagram. I suggested he set up a Fedi account, and pointed out an instance for vegans that I thought would be a good place to start. He said he couldn't bear to deal with another social media outlet.
@foolishowl @futurebird @dnkboston @joepie91
Going from mattermost to discord was a step backwards. I never understood why they did that. And my discord account is no longer accessible to me due to bad design of their 2 factor and no way to recover it.
Their use of zoom is also bad.
Foss using discord is just as bad. Likewise now github.
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@dnkboston @joepie91 @foolishowl @futurebird
I've seen harassment, I've been harassed. That's what the block button is for.
@FranceskaMann I have not been a victim of this, but I've heard multiple times that people either gang up on particular users and/or switch instances. OR follow someone who has switched instances to harass them there.
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When I say "we should control our own social media" people think I'm crazy. Like I'm saying "we should control and manage our own water utility" ... it seems prudent, yes, but how could we possibly have the power and wealth needed to make it happen?
But that's the thing about social media... it is possible. We could just run it ourselves. The money needed is large but not vast or insurmountable. (I won't pretend it's free) "content creators" should understand this.
@futurebird @joepie91 At a minimum, content creators - particularly monitized content creators, need to invest in a personal website and archive. Like sir/mam/weseriouslyneedanappropriategenderneutraltermforthissortofsliglycondesendingsecondpersonpronounusage this is your history. Your livelyhood. Your reputation. You need to invest in its protection. A crappy archive linked on your socual medias IS protecting that. It IS what lets you cross social medias freely, determine your main and your secondaries, and if opportunity or need strikes, what lets you and your followers decide "Fuck them" when your platform rots from under you.
You don't know what you're doing?! Fine! Go cheap! Get a templated web page and shove everything into a file system! Hell, just ask for help! But always, ALWAYS ensure you have a space where you are in charge as the first and final say.
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@FranceskaMann @dnkboston @foolishowl @futurebird Don't. Don't oversimplify this into "just block them".
@dnkboston @joepie91 @foolishowl @futurebird
i'm not oversimplifying anything. That's my strategy. but if we're gonna fight about it I'll block you too.
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@dnkboston @joepie91 @foolishowl @futurebird
i'm not oversimplifying anything. That's my strategy. but if we're gonna fight about it I'll block you too.
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@foolishowl I'm struggling to understand the problem the game designer had with Fediverse. It's...too accessible? That's not me trying to stan for the Fediverse, I just truly don't get it.
I do get the complaint about too many social media outlets. I'm here, a few servers on Discord (I can't wait for that to end), and Signal. And that's it. Any more and I would feel too scattered.
@dnkboston @futurebird @joepie91 I wasn't sure, because she and several other regulars in the channel seemed angry at the suggestion, and I didn't feel up to working through it at the time.
A few guesses: I'd say it came out of the perception that unmoderated Internet platforms are routinely taken over by the far right, or an impatience with the idea of working through micropolitics, or the partial knowledge that there are far right Fediverse instances without the knowledge that these are widely recognized as such and locked down, or maybe just a history of having started out with relatively big game publishers and having been forced into the indie scene and still having a focus on the politics of big game publishers and following from that a focus on commercial communication platforms for advertising.
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@joepie91 @foolishowl @dnkboston@apobangpo.space @futurebird
Done. To you. Why poke me?
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@dnkboston @futurebird @joepie91 I wasn't sure, because she and several other regulars in the channel seemed angry at the suggestion, and I didn't feel up to working through it at the time.
A few guesses: I'd say it came out of the perception that unmoderated Internet platforms are routinely taken over by the far right, or an impatience with the idea of working through micropolitics, or the partial knowledge that there are far right Fediverse instances without the knowledge that these are widely recognized as such and locked down, or maybe just a history of having started out with relatively big game publishers and having been forced into the indie scene and still having a focus on the politics of big game publishers and following from that a focus on commercial communication platforms for advertising.
@foolishowl Got it. Good luck trying to get away from micropolitics.
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@foolishowl @futurebird @dnkboston @joepie91
Going from mattermost to discord was a step backwards. I never understood why they did that. And my discord account is no longer accessible to me due to bad design of their 2 factor and no way to recover it.
Their use of zoom is also bad.
Foss using discord is just as bad. Likewise now github.
@pinskia @futurebird @dnkboston @joepie91 OMFG, after all that, they went to Discord? That's just pathetic.
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I will hear a leftist say "if it had not been for tikTok ..." or "if it had not been for twitter ... " these huge social movements like Black Lives Matter would have never been possible. There would have been, they say, a media black out.
And they are correct. And yet, I still detect little sense of urgency or interest from the same people in educating and promoting social media that we can control like the fediverse.
The microphone can be unplugged the cameras cut off at any moment.
@futurebird I know organizing through in person and offline word of mouth and stuff is really hard. But on the other hand, I think we'd all be better off without relying on smartphones for our outreach. I'm no granny, but *phones specifically* are devil boxes designed by very smart people to perpetually trap our attention and seek rent atop it.
You know, it's not like the Civil Rights Movement needed a Subway Surfers background feed or a rage-optimizing tweet promotion algorithm stapled onto it. If we need to appeal to algorithms, that will influence our messaging, and I'm afraid not in ways that are healthy to the leftist movement in the long term.
And guess what outrage algorithms optimize for: infighting, drama, purity testing, and clout. Suddenly it all clicks together, doesn't it? The "Twitter leftist" is a vocal minority, but less an anomaly and more a leaf following the river's flow. It's almost like dialectical materialism! Except the thesis is our natural craving for acceptance, the antithesis is Twitter's algorithm, and the synthesis, well, writes itself.
Sorry if this is a little tangential. If anything, it's just yet another reason to keep the Fediverse dream alive!
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There are problems with the idea of "the good leftist" and sometimes there are limitations on what people can do. I used amazon's "dot" when I couldn't walk. I hated using an amazon product, but it was already set up and I needed to turn the lights on and off and manage my crutches.
But I won't let the limitations of individual action paralyze me. I will do the things that I can and glory in the way my little actions are amplified when others join in.
Social media is part of that.
perfectionism and cynicism are demotivators
the ideal is you just do what you can
thinking it's not enough and everything sucks and then you die, or thinking about all the stuff you can't ever do... neither of those thieves of personal agency mean anything
there is no morality without action
and action, by definition, is imperfect and inadequate
such that, sitting there frozen and unable to act due to these demons of cynicism and perfectionism is just a kind of toxin
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@dnkboston @futurebird @joepie91 I wasn't sure, because she and several other regulars in the channel seemed angry at the suggestion, and I didn't feel up to working through it at the time.
A few guesses: I'd say it came out of the perception that unmoderated Internet platforms are routinely taken over by the far right, or an impatience with the idea of working through micropolitics, or the partial knowledge that there are far right Fediverse instances without the knowledge that these are widely recognized as such and locked down, or maybe just a history of having started out with relatively big game publishers and having been forced into the indie scene and still having a focus on the politics of big game publishers and following from that a focus on commercial communication platforms for advertising.
@foolishowl @dnkboston @futurebird The "micropolitics" thing is one I've very often seen as a reason as well. It bothers me. I'm in the Netherlands so that may affect things, but not 30 years ago it was completely normal here to organize social groups and clubs and whatnot, and sort out internal disagreements and conflicts and settle on rules that everyone could agree on. In other words, 'micropolitics'.
It's terrifying how a lot of people who *definitely* were around for that, seem to have completely lost either the ability or willingness to do that work. Despite such processes being at the root of a functioning society. -
@foolishowl @dnkboston @joepie91
The fediverse just isn't as easy to get into. And when people were leaving twitter there was a small but effective misinformation campaign to smear the fedi as "too much like 4chan" and "a place for the worst dude bro nerds" and "unmoderated" etc. and I think some of it came from bluesky filtered through prominent leftists who just don't think this is a big deal?
I think it's a big deal. We need to have our own damn servers. Not saying that is easy.
@futurebird @dnkboston @joepie91 I also think there's long been a split within the left, over the conflicting strategies of taking over existing institutions versus creating new ones.
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perfectionism and cynicism are demotivators
the ideal is you just do what you can
thinking it's not enough and everything sucks and then you die, or thinking about all the stuff you can't ever do... neither of those thieves of personal agency mean anything
there is no morality without action
and action, by definition, is imperfect and inadequate
such that, sitting there frozen and unable to act due to these demons of cynicism and perfectionism is just a kind of toxin
@benroyce @futurebird @randulo people demanding perfectionism when they can't read beyond the 3rd grade reading level is very funny to me.
And it's bad now, it was bad back in 2020 and now it's worse.
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@foolishowl @dnkboston @futurebird The "micropolitics" thing is one I've very often seen as a reason as well. It bothers me. I'm in the Netherlands so that may affect things, but not 30 years ago it was completely normal here to organize social groups and clubs and whatnot, and sort out internal disagreements and conflicts and settle on rules that everyone could agree on. In other words, 'micropolitics'.
It's terrifying how a lot of people who *definitely* were around for that, seem to have completely lost either the ability or willingness to do that work. Despite such processes being at the root of a functioning society.@joepie91 That's basically what I'm saying. There's no place--virtual or not--where that doesn't come up.
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@benroyce @futurebird @randulo people demanding perfectionism when they can't read beyond the 3rd grade reading level is very funny to me.
And it's bad now, it was bad back in 2020 and now it's worse.
@macacator @futurebird @randulo
yeah
i'm talking about an internal psychological struggle
but the whole "you're doing something but it's not perfect" sort of "criticism" from outside your efforts, from other "leftists," is some real bullshit
the only real leftists are leftists actually doing something
people sitting and judging others as inadequate or imperfect or "you're doing that but why aren't you doing this" demands etc is nothing but self-serving ego masturbation. it's fake posers
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When I say "we should control our own social media" people think I'm crazy. Like I'm saying "we should control and manage our own water utility" ... it seems prudent, yes, but how could we possibly have the power and wealth needed to make it happen?
But that's the thing about social media... it is possible. We could just run it ourselves. The money needed is large but not vast or insurmountable. (I won't pretend it's free) "content creators" should understand this.
@futurebird @joepie91 my social media / running on a 2019 dell
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@macacator @futurebird @randulo
yeah
i'm talking about an internal psychological struggle
but the whole "you're doing something but it's not perfect" sort of "criticism" from outside your efforts, from other "leftists," is some real bullshit
the only real leftists are leftists actually doing something
people sitting and judging others as inadequate or imperfect or "you're doing that but why aren't you doing this" demands etc is nothing but self-serving ego masturbation. it's fake posers
@benroyce @macacator @futurebird I may be misunderstanding, but it seems to me everyone who has posted so far is basically "we do what we can".
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If you are a political commentator or if you are a creative person who makes art, music, video essays or other content you want lots of people to see your work. That is why you made it. So it's unreasonable to say you should boycott or avoid the most effective ways to reach the greatest number of people.
I do think it's reasonable, however to ask that you educate your fans on the alternatives, engage with them. This is part of "doing the work" too.
@futurebird I might be more of an extremist than most, but I took my books off of Amazon years ago, and I left Twitter and Facebook early on. And as much as the final straw was over ethics, the business terms on Amazon were increasingly predatory. (Same, I hear, for Facebook, but I never used it as such.)
The "reach" that you might get on big platforms is not free, sooner or later.
