I gotta admit, I am loving how little of the conversation is just "BlueSky bad!
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I gotta admit, I am loving how little of the conversation is just "BlueSky bad! Mastodon good!
" and how much of it is "BlueSky is not ideal for Black users, but let's be for real, neither is Mastodon. We don't have control over BlueSky, but we do have some agency with Mastodon. How can we make Mastodon better? Where are we with improving the issues that make this place unwelcoming for Black users? Clearly, more Black users chose BlueSky than Mastodon. Have we addressed the reasons why?" 
️🥹Seriously, I count ~5 conversations in the improvement framing direction. I love to see it! Shame on me for having lower expectations.
I'm unapologetically backing improvements across ActivityPub and ATProto. I back Hachyderm/Mastodon and BlackSky. You can just back both teams! Nothing in the rules says you can't do that!
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I gotta admit, I am loving how little of the conversation is just "BlueSky bad! Mastodon good!
" and how much of it is "BlueSky is not ideal for Black users, but let's be for real, neither is Mastodon. We don't have control over BlueSky, but we do have some agency with Mastodon. How can we make Mastodon better? Where are we with improving the issues that make this place unwelcoming for Black users? Clearly, more Black users chose BlueSky than Mastodon. Have we addressed the reasons why?" ️🥹Seriously, I count ~5 conversations in the improvement framing direction. I love to see it! Shame on me for having lower expectations.
I'm unapologetically backing improvements across ActivityPub and ATProto. I back Hachyderm/Mastodon and BlackSky. You can just back both teams! Nothing in the rules says you can't do that!
On the subject of improving Mastodon. This may be an opportunity to rekindle developer attention on the 'Followers Only' dogpiling harassment vector. Felt like some progress on the issue was made back in November, but don't know where it stands now.
cc: @stefan
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On the subject of improving Mastodon. This may be an opportunity to rekindle developer attention on the 'Followers Only' dogpiling harassment vector. Felt like some progress on the issue was made back in November, but don't know where it stands now.
cc: @stefan
I wonder if @scottjenson might be interested in connecting with
@mekkaokereke, that is, if he'd like to share some thoughts.(Unless you two already spoke, in which case, please disregard!)
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I wonder if @scottjenson might be interested in connecting with
@mekkaokereke, that is, if he'd like to share some thoughts.(Unless you two already spoke, in which case, please disregard!)
@mastodonmigration But yes, that particular issue, I have not heard/seen any updates either.
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@mastodonmigration But yes, that particular issue, I have not heard/seen any updates either.
@stefan @mastodonmigration
Yes, @mekkaokereke and I spoke about to how best present Quote Posts and his advice had a direct impact on what we shipped. We're about to reach out for another round of discussions with a wide range of people (but I don't think we've contacted Mekka just yet)It's so tempting to take the engineering approach and think "this feature will do it!" when we likely need to back up and talk about bigger issues such as culture and moderation.
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@stefan @mastodonmigration
Yes, @mekkaokereke and I spoke about to how best present Quote Posts and his advice had a direct impact on what we shipped. We're about to reach out for another round of discussions with a wide range of people (but I don't think we've contacted Mekka just yet)It's so tempting to take the engineering approach and think "this feature will do it!" when we likely need to back up and talk about bigger issues such as culture and moderation.
@scottjenson @stefan @mekkaokereke
It is great to see this conversation take off. You did a fabulous job with quote posts and it would be wonderful if this issue could get the same kind of careful attention. Completely agree that a proper requirements driven approach is warranted. Thank you.
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@scottjenson @stefan @mekkaokereke
It is great to see this conversation take off. You did a fabulous job with quote posts and it would be wonderful if this issue could get the same kind of careful attention. Completely agree that a proper requirements driven approach is warranted. Thank you.
@mastodonmigration always happy to chat
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@mastodonmigration always happy to chat
@scottjenson
@mekkaokereke
@stefanGreat. Just to be really clear. What seems to be the issue is a type of hidden dogpiling or 'brigading.'
A tight group folks who's purpose is to harass someone follow each other, 'the brigade'.
One of them composes a harassing post specifically targeting someone who they @ mention, and post it using "Followers Only" reply controls.
The rest of the 'brigade' piles on.
The post is only seen by the targeted person(s) and the harassers.
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@scottjenson
@mekkaokereke
@stefanGreat. Just to be really clear. What seems to be the issue is a type of hidden dogpiling or 'brigading.'
A tight group folks who's purpose is to harass someone follow each other, 'the brigade'.
One of them composes a harassing post specifically targeting someone who they @ mention, and post it using "Followers Only" reply controls.
The rest of the 'brigade' piles on.
The post is only seen by the targeted person(s) and the harassers.
@mastodonmigration @stefan
Can you help me understand how followers only posts are harder for moderation to catch? I understand they are not public but they can still be reported? I'm trying to tackle this problem from the moderation agle as a server block helps so many more people (if we can pull it off) -
@mastodonmigration @stefan
Can you help me understand how followers only posts are harder for moderation to catch? I understand they are not public but they can still be reported? I'm trying to tackle this problem from the moderation agle as a server block helps so many more people (if we can pull it off)@scottjenson @mastodonmigration @stefan followers-only posts require the *victim* to report the attack. Depending on the volume and ferocity of the harassment, the victim may not be in a position to do this (either due to harassment across several channels, or unawareness of reporting and moderation options).
As an example, I piled into this thread to help out with an example, but I wouldn't have seen it to help out if it were "followers only".
I can see the positive value in being able to restrict a discussion, but it seems like "all my friends plus one more" might be a dangerous model.
Take all this with a grain of salt, as I haven't actually been subject to this kind of abuse, and am privileged in a bunch of ways which probably shield me from having to consider the worst of it.
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@scottjenson @mastodonmigration @stefan followers-only posts require the *victim* to report the attack. Depending on the volume and ferocity of the harassment, the victim may not be in a position to do this (either due to harassment across several channels, or unawareness of reporting and moderation options).
As an example, I piled into this thread to help out with an example, but I wouldn't have seen it to help out if it were "followers only".
I can see the positive value in being able to restrict a discussion, but it seems like "all my friends plus one more" might be a dangerous model.
Take all this with a grain of salt, as I haven't actually been subject to this kind of abuse, and am privileged in a bunch of ways which probably shield me from having to consider the worst of it.
evana@hachyderm.io scottjenson@social.coop mastodonmigration@mastodon.online stefan@stefanbohacek.online would it help if selecting “followers only” didn’t also include any mentioned people who are not followers? so mentions only are only shown the post and notified if you post publicly or if they are already following you.
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N nodebb@fosstodon.org shared this topic
