A point most authors studiously ignore is that the real world is *complex*.
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@cstross I know where AO3 is, of course, but I'd like to read "the Slow Horses stumble into a Laundry op"
@flippac I haven't read enough Slow Horses to write it myself (got stuck 25% of the way into the first book, don't watch TV) but if I find myself with a surfeit of writing time, maybe keep an eye on the Laundry fanfic corner of AO3
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@cstross "Have I read the Official fucking Secrets Act? I was shitting copies when you were in nappies!"
"sigh If you'd read this version you'd have breached it all over the place every time you went for a curry"@cstross "If I told you I'd have to recruit you. And I'm guessing you've already got an agency you're dedicated to pissing off."
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@cstross I know where AO3 is, of course, but I'd like to read "the Slow Horses stumble into a Laundry op"
@cstross Oh god. Belated entry to the old HR contest: the aftermath of Shirley managing to kick the shit out of something it should've been physically impossible to kick the shit out of on account of being too eldritch to shit in the first place.
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RE: https://wandering.shop/@cstross/117110021420097079
A point most authors studiously ignore is that the real world is *complex*.
Take spy thrillers. An American one might feature the CIA or, in extremis, the NSA. Up against one rival agency.
But in reality, there's a civil service clearinghouse called the United States Intelligence Community that has nineteen stakeholder members, each of which is an intel agency. Its job is to keep them from stomping on each other's toes.
Now ask yourself if any other nation's bureaucracy is plausibly simpler.
@cstross To build on @flippac’s suggestion of Slow Horses / Laundry cross-over, Mr Aaronovitch’s specialist team as part of the Met crossing paths with the Laundry might actually be fairly harmonious. Sure, the people at The Folly are using incantation majik, as opposed to maths, but both teams are at least trying to deal with daemons.
Has this — in either direction — ever been discussed between the two of you? Is it a possibility that one team might appear in the other’s novel?
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@cstross To build on @flippac’s suggestion of Slow Horses / Laundry cross-over, Mr Aaronovitch’s specialist team as part of the Met crossing paths with the Laundry might actually be fairly harmonious. Sure, the people at The Folly are using incantation majik, as opposed to maths, but both teams are at least trying to deal with daemons.
Has this — in either direction — ever been discussed between the two of you? Is it a possibility that one team might appear in the other’s novel?
@IanAMartin @flippac Ben and I actually discussed a Folly/Laundry crossover about a decade ago but concluded the magic systems were too antithetical to make it fly.
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@IanAMartin @flippac Ben and I actually discussed a Folly/Laundry crossover about a decade ago but concluded the magic systems were too antithetical to make it fly.
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@IanAMartin @flippac I'm finished with the Laundryverse *for now*, not necessarily forever—but I'd been doing little else for a decade and need a few years off.
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@flippac I haven't read enough Slow Horses to write it myself (got stuck 25% of the way into the first book, don't watch TV) but if I find myself with a surfeit of writing time, maybe keep an eye on the Laundry fanfic corner of AO3
@cstross If it's not too big a risk of upsetting others, what was the balance between "not for me" and "not while I'm writing the Laundryverse" for you?
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@cstross If it's not too big a risk of upsetting others, what was the balance between "not for me" and "not while I'm writing the Laundryverse" for you?
@flippac I only got to it after I finished writing the Laundryverse: I just wasn't in the right headspace for spy thrillers at the time.
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@IanAMartin @flippac I'm finished with the Laundryverse *for now*, not necessarily forever—but I'd been doing little else for a decade and need a few years off.
@cstross @flippac Understandable. Having finished “The Annihilation Score” a few days ago, and having read “The Rhesus Chart” right before that, I am now reading someone else’s book before next reading “A Conventional Boy.” Too much of one thing makes one’s brain less happy. Alternating authors is typically best. Somewhere I’ll be going from you to Deighton’s “Bomber,” which should be either a bit of a jolt, or a palate cleansing experience. Not sure which it will be, or in which direction.
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Now, I'm currently grappling with a space opera set in a mid-sized interstellar empire governed by backbiting aristocrats/planetary despots, with 8000 star systems, multiple settled worlds/habitats per system, and travel times measured in weeks to months. Multiple governments per planet aren't unusual.
How many intel/secret police forces do you think *that* setting requires? Just saying "it's an empire, duh!" elides all the complexity a glance at the history of John Company would reveal.
@cstross I just had a vision of a book which goes into excruciating detail on the bureaucratic complexity and intrigue behind the Great Galactic Empire
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@cstross I know where AO3 is, of course, but I'd like to read "the Slow Horses stumble into a Laundry op"
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RE: https://wandering.shop/@cstross/117110021420097079
A point most authors studiously ignore is that the real world is *complex*.
Take spy thrillers. An American one might feature the CIA or, in extremis, the NSA. Up against one rival agency.
But in reality, there's a civil service clearinghouse called the United States Intelligence Community that has nineteen stakeholder members, each of which is an intel agency. Its job is to keep them from stomping on each other's toes.
Now ask yourself if any other nation's bureaucracy is plausibly simpler.
@cstross Well, Grand Fenwick's secret services are just Peter Sellers in different outfits
(I know you don't watch movies: this was a 1959 anti-nukes comedy where a tiny country ends up with a planet busting bomb; Sellers played 3 leading roles)
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RE: https://wandering.shop/@cstross/117110021420097079
A point most authors studiously ignore is that the real world is *complex*.
Take spy thrillers. An American one might feature the CIA or, in extremis, the NSA. Up against one rival agency.
But in reality, there's a civil service clearinghouse called the United States Intelligence Community that has nineteen stakeholder members, each of which is an intel agency. Its job is to keep them from stomping on each other's toes.
Now ask yourself if any other nation's bureaucracy is plausibly simpler.
@cstross Some nations' bureaucracies are presumably simpler if only because they are tiny and can't afford that much stuff, but that also kind of cuts them out of high level, high tech spying games.
The Tuvaluan Intelligence Service consisting of one person (which I'm sure doesn't actually exist) would be a really fun book or film premise though.
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@cstross Well, Grand Fenwick's secret services are just Peter Sellers in different outfits
(I know you don't watch movies: this was a 1959 anti-nukes comedy where a tiny country ends up with a planet busting bomb; Sellers played 3 leading roles)
@bazzargh I don't watch *21st century* movies: eyeballs can't handle 'em. 1950s are another matter.
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Now, I'm currently grappling with a space opera set in a mid-sized interstellar empire governed by backbiting aristocrats/planetary despots, with 8000 star systems, multiple settled worlds/habitats per system, and travel times measured in weeks to months. Multiple governments per planet aren't unusual.
How many intel/secret police forces do you think *that* setting requires? Just saying "it's an empire, duh!" elides all the complexity a glance at the history of John Company would reveal.
@cstross DMing a Traveller game for a while, I feel this very much. Most settings for planets I read were like film sets for a specific genre, not a world description. I had to come up with lots, even if I only prepared a single region.
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@cstross Some nations' bureaucracies are presumably simpler if only because they are tiny and can't afford that much stuff, but that also kind of cuts them out of high level, high tech spying games.
The Tuvaluan Intelligence Service consisting of one person (which I'm sure doesn't actually exist) would be a really fun book or film premise though.
@Exilian Smaller nation bureaucracies aren't necessarily simpler, they're just smaller and less effective (no economies of scale). Usually. Israel is small but nobody sane considers Mossad to be a negligible threat ...
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@flippac I only got to it after I finished writing the Laundryverse: I just wasn't in the right headspace for spy thrillers at the time.
@cstross The exact ratio of depressing to other stuff's particularly high early on as well, and while there are good arc reasons for it there's a lot about one character's alcoholism for several books
I still prefer them overall to the TV series, though the adaptation's managed to tone down one thing it had started to escalate a bit far compared to the books again
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@cstross DMing a Traveller game for a while, I feel this very much. Most settings for planets I read were like film sets for a specific genre, not a world description. I had to come up with lots, even if I only prepared a single region.
@dereisenhofer There's even a term for this sort of sub-standard worldbuilding in genre criticism: the planet of the hats. ("You can tell they come from X'thrargh because those people always wear green ten gallon hats." And nobody else does.)
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@cstross The exact ratio of depressing to other stuff's particularly high early on as well, and while there are good arc reasons for it there's a lot about one character's alcoholism for several books
I still prefer them overall to the TV series, though the adaptation's managed to tone down one thing it had started to escalate a bit far compared to the books again
@cstross Despite the situation threatening the job of the head of MI5, arming the "private security" with G36s was going a bit far as was the upgrade to what one slow horse keeps handy for close encounters...
...and then unlike S4 the relevant book had more sense than to have anyone pull a smartarsed trick with a grenade that'll result in a chunk of the audience counting how long it's been since it was primed - and yeah, it does eventually go off
