Have you ever used a zipper?
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@grimalkina Oooh, this is great.
Am I falling for some trap by bringing up "The science of cycology: Failures to understand how everyday objects work" (Lawson, 2006)?
@richlv oh I've seen and love that one
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The vast majority of zipper users -- skilled, successful zipper users! -- can't explain how a zipper works.
This is a charming, famous example that comes from cognitive science/psychology work on The Illusion of Explanatory Depth: "Most people feel they understand the world with far greater detail, coherence, and depth than they really do"
Rozenblit, L., & Keil, F. (2002). The misunderstood limits of folk science: An illusion of explanatory depth. Cognitive science, 26(5), 521-562.
@grimalkina but what if you could explain how you *think* a zipper works (from carefully repairing several of them) but you have no idea if what you came up with is mostly correct, though not complete, or a useful lie, because you never actually talk with people about zippers?
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@grimalkina This is how I ended up with an enduring Special Interest in tall ships. Innocently asking “how does a square rigger sail upwind at all?” turned into years of learning the next level of detail.
@wlonk @grimalkina The sheer number of ropes they had on those ships is astounding. Each sail needs something like 5 ropes to control it, and there are 8+ sails.
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@sinvega there is a fun example Tom Griffiths (a computational cognitive scientist) talks about using in his classes/and in his book: imagine that you are far removed from our civilization a thousand years into the future and you've dug up a cash register. How would you go about trying to learn how it worked? What it was for? What could you infer from it (for instance, could you understand the rules of arithmetic given a cash register)?
@grimalkina @sinvega An archaeologist would probably label a cash register as "a ritual object", which isn't exactly wrong, but also not terribly useful.
Also, a modern-ish cash register has too much of the magic in one or more integrated circuits. Which means everything the operator touches goes into the IC, and sometimes when the IC decides it's time, the drawer opens, or something.
More interesting are purely mechanical things. The peak of interesting mechanical things is probably WWII, when they had entire artillery control computers on battleships that were made from hubs, gears, cams, etc.
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@NuclearOatmeal @grimalkina Gearing pulls the sewed fabric forward in step with the needle movement, with the use of the curved metal bit that locks the fabric in place just enough that fabric does not bunch up but still moves freely. Usually helped by guiding the fabric with your hand, for manual sewing machines.
Used to be I didn't think about these things, as I learned more about how to model something in my head I've gotten much better just looking at a thing and seeing how it works.
@cohentheblue @NuclearOatmeal @grimalkina IMO the magic in the sewing machine is how the bobbin and needle interact so that the top and bottom threads are connected.
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@wlonk @grimalkina The sheer number of ropes they had on those ships is astounding. Each sail needs something like 5 ropes to control it, and there are 8+ sails.
@merc I recently did a 1/57 scale sloop and it took about 6 feet of scale rope just for the standing rigging. It’s bonkers.
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@scy @grimalkina they also have one called "You (likely) don't understand how a sewing machine works"
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@grimalkina reading this post makes me feel like rabbithole georg because I have too many "yes"es
(or at least 'yes' enough that I might be fuzzy on the exact details but can explain the fundamental mechanisms)@joepie91 @grimalkina Yeah, I was answering "more or less" to most of them. Mostly that comes from fixing them.
I've fixed enough broken zippers that I know how the teeth mesh, how the pull separates and joins the teeth, etc.
I've fixed a fair number of broken toilets, so I know how the plunger works, the float, the flapper, etc. Though, to be fair, I'd have to be sitting in front of a toilet with the lid off to properly explain it.
I've fought with broken can openers, so I know that mechanism. I also know a few of the alternate versions of can openers, which IMO are mostly worse designs.
I learned how pianos work, just because they're neat mechanical devices.
As for the heart, my mother unfortunately has persistent atrial fibrillation, so I know a bit about how the heart is *supposed* to work.
And... I took a course in semiconductor physics in university, and though it's been a few decades, I still remember the some of basics of a BJT and a MOSFET, including the quantum basis for what's happening.
As for an aqualung, I don't even know what that is. It sounds like SCUBA gear?
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@merc I recently did a 1/57 scale sloop and it took about 6 feet of scale rope just for the standing rigging. It’s bonkers.
@wlonk It really is. I really like how they organized it too. It reminds me a bit of a modern computer rack, or telephone rack's patch panel, with all these cables going into a certain area.
To me, that was one of the things that really made me appreciate the knowledge and skill that those sailors had.
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Have you ever used a zipper? Odds are you have. Are you pretty good at it? Odds are! You've probably successfully used a zipper many, many times. You probably can't even remember when and where you learned how to operate a zipper. If you're a good zipper user and we sat you down in a room and gave you ten zippered garments, you'd probably fluently and flawlessly be able to zip them up and down.
Now......can you explain how a zipper works?
@grimalkina @b0rk Only because I had to train my son intensively to get him able to operate most zippers one-handed.
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Researchers asked participants to rate their understanding of a political policy, then explain how the policies worked...interestingly, being pushed to produce *mechanistic* (causal) explanations for their views moderated those political views, while merely listing *reasons* for the views didn't
@grimalkina trying that with my teens for a couple of years now and they demonstrate a very high capacity at willingly circumvoluting the thing to show they were right from the start
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Have you ever used a zipper? Odds are you have. Are you pretty good at it? Odds are! You've probably successfully used a zipper many, many times. You probably can't even remember when and where you learned how to operate a zipper. If you're a good zipper user and we sat you down in a room and gave you ten zippered garments, you'd probably fluently and flawlessly be able to zip them up and down.
Now......can you explain how a zipper works?
@grimalkina Yes indeed. As long as I could scribble a couple diagrams when doing so.
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Have you ever used a zipper? Odds are you have. Are you pretty good at it? Odds are! You've probably successfully used a zipper many, many times. You probably can't even remember when and where you learned how to operate a zipper. If you're a good zipper user and we sat you down in a room and gave you ten zippered garments, you'd probably fluently and flawlessly be able to zip them up and down.
Now......can you explain how a zipper works?
@grimalkina Mind-expanding thread and replies,
Will return to read more! -
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