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FARVEL BIG TECH
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  3. Generative AI is a Faustian bargain.

Generative AI is a Faustian bargain.

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  • benlockwood@ecoevo.socialB benlockwood@ecoevo.social

    Generative AI is a Faustian bargain. Every use of it weakens you. Maybe you occasionally save a few minutes, but you are diminished for it. With each use you are further from your human potential.

    jack@xeno.glyphpress.comJ This user is from outside of this forum
    jack@xeno.glyphpress.comJ This user is from outside of this forum
    jack@xeno.glyphpress.com
    wrote sidst redigeret af
    #3

    @benlockwood That's a heck of a claim when some of us are using AI as a prosthesis for things like poor executive function or ADHD.

    I have an AI assistant I've set up to have context about all my projects & their status.

    If I have a bad brain day where I'm foggy/can't focus, I can ask the AI to help me figure out what I should be working on.

    That makes me MORE myself, not less.

    And anyway, I'll take a handshake with Lucifer over Yahweh any day. The Devil has integrity.

    #ai #llm #disability

    corigan01@todon.nlC sus@timeloop.cafeS whizzter@peoplemaking.gamesW ochotonidknight@meemu.orgO creepy_owlet@mastodon.onlineC 5 Replies Last reply
    0
    • benlockwood@ecoevo.socialB benlockwood@ecoevo.social

      Generative AI is a Faustian bargain. Every use of it weakens you. Maybe you occasionally save a few minutes, but you are diminished for it. With each use you are further from your human potential.

      cauzation@mastodon.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
      cauzation@mastodon.socialC This user is from outside of this forum
      cauzation@mastodon.social
      wrote sidst redigeret af
      #4

      @benlockwood Well, from the #TechBros angle, it presents a prime opportunity to corner energy markets, eventually compete with #FossilFuels #Oligarchy when the rest of us are rendered extinct. So why not introduce #AI quickly, faux a pullback publicly, and look like responsible leaders, all the while reaping rewards from bloated energy costs, then eventual #DataCenter #greed.

      Remove #TechBros and #FossilFuels #Oligarchy from power

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • benlockwood@ecoevo.socialB benlockwood@ecoevo.social

        Generative AI is a Faustian bargain. Every use of it weakens you. Maybe you occasionally save a few minutes, but you are diminished for it. With each use you are further from your human potential.

        davidrevoy@framapiaf.orgD This user is from outside of this forum
        davidrevoy@framapiaf.orgD This user is from outside of this forum
        davidrevoy@framapiaf.org
        wrote sidst redigeret af
        #5

        @benlockwood Oh, that's inspiration material for new comic. Thanks.

        paniczgodek@functional.cafeP 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • benlockwood@ecoevo.socialB benlockwood@ecoevo.social

          Generative AI is a Faustian bargain. Every use of it weakens you. Maybe you occasionally save a few minutes, but you are diminished for it. With each use you are further from your human potential.

          tylnesh@fosstodon.orgT This user is from outside of this forum
          tylnesh@fosstodon.orgT This user is from outside of this forum
          tylnesh@fosstodon.org
          wrote sidst redigeret af
          #6

          @benlockwood electrically powered tools are a faustian bargain. Every use of them weakens you...

          Electric drill diminishes your use of muscles that could've been used for hammering nails manually

          corigan01@todon.nlC daie@toot.walesD ohmu@social.seattle.wa.usO maybe_mbk@mastodon.socialM sigsegv@hachyderm.ioS 5 Replies Last reply
          0
          • benlockwood@ecoevo.socialB benlockwood@ecoevo.social

            Generative AI is a Faustian bargain. Every use of it weakens you. Maybe you occasionally save a few minutes, but you are diminished for it. With each use you are further from your human potential.

            N This user is from outside of this forum
            N This user is from outside of this forum
            nicelymanifest@mastodon.social
            wrote sidst redigeret af
            #7

            @benlockwood Likewise each moment sat in nature lost to phone obsession.

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • jack@xeno.glyphpress.comJ jack@xeno.glyphpress.com

              @benlockwood That's a heck of a claim when some of us are using AI as a prosthesis for things like poor executive function or ADHD.

              I have an AI assistant I've set up to have context about all my projects & their status.

              If I have a bad brain day where I'm foggy/can't focus, I can ask the AI to help me figure out what I should be working on.

              That makes me MORE myself, not less.

              And anyway, I'll take a handshake with Lucifer over Yahweh any day. The Devil has integrity.

              #ai #llm #disability

              corigan01@todon.nlC This user is from outside of this forum
              corigan01@todon.nlC This user is from outside of this forum
              corigan01@todon.nl
              wrote sidst redigeret af
              #8

              @jack @benlockwood I have ADHD and I don't use AI, so I think it's kinda disingenuous to suggest that we would all also benefit from AI.

              If anything, ADHD people should stay even further away from AI.

              evoscale@c.imE jack@xeno.glyphpress.comJ 2 Replies Last reply
              0
              • benlockwood@ecoevo.socialB benlockwood@ecoevo.social

                Generative AI is a Faustian bargain. Every use of it weakens you. Maybe you occasionally save a few minutes, but you are diminished for it. With each use you are further from your human potential.

                wraptile@fosstodon.orgW This user is from outside of this forum
                wraptile@fosstodon.orgW This user is from outside of this forum
                wraptile@fosstodon.org
                wrote sidst redigeret af
                #9

                @benlockwood I don't think that's necessarily true.

                Sure if you don't ride the bike every day you're worse bike rider but finishing races also makes you a better bike rider.

                I'm a senior dev and consider myself a good'ish coder and while LLMs do make me worse at memorizing APIs I ship so much more which on it's own a very useful skill to train.

                At the end of the day it's just another computer. If you use the one that's in your skull as well then you'll be just perfectly fine.

                corigan01@todon.nlC wilkuu@hachyderm.ioW minos@mamot.frM msbellows@c.imM ahltorp@mastodon.nuA 7 Replies Last reply
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                • corigan01@todon.nlC corigan01@todon.nl

                  @jack @benlockwood I have ADHD and I don't use AI, so I think it's kinda disingenuous to suggest that we would all also benefit from AI.

                  If anything, ADHD people should stay even further away from AI.

                  evoscale@c.imE This user is from outside of this forum
                  evoscale@c.imE This user is from outside of this forum
                  evoscale@c.im
                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                  #10

                  @corigan01 Indeed, there are better organic solves, than artificial.

                  Unfortunately, this isn't basic enough education.

                  1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • davidrevoy@framapiaf.orgD davidrevoy@framapiaf.org

                    @benlockwood Oh, that's inspiration material for new comic. Thanks.

                    paniczgodek@functional.cafeP This user is from outside of this forum
                    paniczgodek@functional.cafeP This user is from outside of this forum
                    paniczgodek@functional.cafe
                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                    #11

                    @davidrevoy @benlockwood FWIW there is a comic version of Harari's 'Sapiens' and it also features a Faustian bargain

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • wraptile@fosstodon.orgW wraptile@fosstodon.org

                      @benlockwood I don't think that's necessarily true.

                      Sure if you don't ride the bike every day you're worse bike rider but finishing races also makes you a better bike rider.

                      I'm a senior dev and consider myself a good'ish coder and while LLMs do make me worse at memorizing APIs I ship so much more which on it's own a very useful skill to train.

                      At the end of the day it's just another computer. If you use the one that's in your skull as well then you'll be just perfectly fine.

                      corigan01@todon.nlC This user is from outside of this forum
                      corigan01@todon.nlC This user is from outside of this forum
                      corigan01@todon.nl
                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                      #12

                      @wraptile @benlockwood

                      AI != Riding a bike

                      rasterweb@mastodon.socialR 1 Reply Last reply
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                      • benlockwood@ecoevo.socialB benlockwood@ecoevo.social

                        Generative AI is a Faustian bargain. Every use of it weakens you. Maybe you occasionally save a few minutes, but you are diminished for it. With each use you are further from your human potential.

                        oldmikie@mastodon.socialO This user is from outside of this forum
                        oldmikie@mastodon.socialO This user is from outside of this forum
                        oldmikie@mastodon.social
                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                        #13

                        @benlockwood
                        https://youtu.be/JeGvlNsinCI?si=Gpfe7X9rDzv_P4-C

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • benlockwood@ecoevo.socialB benlockwood@ecoevo.social

                          Generative AI is a Faustian bargain. Every use of it weakens you. Maybe you occasionally save a few minutes, but you are diminished for it. With each use you are further from your human potential.

                          F This user is from outside of this forum
                          F This user is from outside of this forum
                          failedlyndonlarouchite@mas.to
                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                          #14

                          @benlockwood

                          using word processors is a Faustian bargain, etc

                          back in teh 1800s, Good People™️ were aghast that some other people were using preprinted xmas cards !!!!!

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • wraptile@fosstodon.orgW wraptile@fosstodon.org

                            @benlockwood I don't think that's necessarily true.

                            Sure if you don't ride the bike every day you're worse bike rider but finishing races also makes you a better bike rider.

                            I'm a senior dev and consider myself a good'ish coder and while LLMs do make me worse at memorizing APIs I ship so much more which on it's own a very useful skill to train.

                            At the end of the day it's just another computer. If you use the one that's in your skull as well then you'll be just perfectly fine.

                            wilkuu@hachyderm.ioW This user is from outside of this forum
                            wilkuu@hachyderm.ioW This user is from outside of this forum
                            wilkuu@hachyderm.io
                            wrote sidst redigeret af
                            #15

                            @wraptile @benlockwood

                            Well, getting over the finish line does not make you a better bike rider, it's the actions between the start and finish that refine the skill. AI would be like doing a race on an e-bike.

                            When it comes to the term "shipping", I do not really understand it.
                            I wonder where does it the coding end and shipping starts.
                            Pressing submit is not a skill, after all.

                            wraptile@fosstodon.orgW 1 Reply Last reply
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                            • wilkuu@hachyderm.ioW wilkuu@hachyderm.io

                              @wraptile @benlockwood

                              Well, getting over the finish line does not make you a better bike rider, it's the actions between the start and finish that refine the skill. AI would be like doing a race on an e-bike.

                              When it comes to the term "shipping", I do not really understand it.
                              I wonder where does it the coding end and shipping starts.
                              Pressing submit is not a skill, after all.

                              wraptile@fosstodon.orgW This user is from outside of this forum
                              wraptile@fosstodon.orgW This user is from outside of this forum
                              wraptile@fosstodon.org
                              wrote sidst redigeret af
                              #16

                              @wilkuu @benlockwood it absolutely makes you a better biker. I'm not sure how far how far this bike analogy can get us here but there's more to life and career that dishing out code. Yesterday I learned about cloudflare tunnels just because I had to ship something which in turn lead me to learn about fortifying my local network with techniques I would have never bothered with.

                              Most of human knowledge is transferable, we are not paperclip factory machines ­— we're people.

                              wilkuu@hachyderm.ioW 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • tylnesh@fosstodon.orgT tylnesh@fosstodon.org

                                @benlockwood electrically powered tools are a faustian bargain. Every use of them weakens you...

                                Electric drill diminishes your use of muscles that could've been used for hammering nails manually

                                corigan01@todon.nlC This user is from outside of this forum
                                corigan01@todon.nlC This user is from outside of this forum
                                corigan01@todon.nl
                                wrote sidst redigeret af
                                #17

                                @tylnesh @benlockwood

                                Muscles are not your brain, you give up your humanity when you use AI.

                                tylnesh@fosstodon.orgT 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • corigan01@todon.nlC corigan01@todon.nl

                                  @jack @benlockwood I have ADHD and I don't use AI, so I think it's kinda disingenuous to suggest that we would all also benefit from AI.

                                  If anything, ADHD people should stay even further away from AI.

                                  jack@xeno.glyphpress.comJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                  jack@xeno.glyphpress.comJ This user is from outside of this forum
                                  jack@xeno.glyphpress.com
                                  wrote sidst redigeret af
                                  #18

                                  @corigan01 @benlockwood

                                  Sounds like you already have other ways of managing ADHD that work for you. That's cool.

                                  I don't think it's the right assistive device for every case.

                                  In my case, though, it works very well. I did have a stage early on where I'd get distracted playing with the AI, but once that got boring, no problems.

                                  corigan01@todon.nlC 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • benlockwood@ecoevo.socialB benlockwood@ecoevo.social

                                    Generative AI is a Faustian bargain. Every use of it weakens you. Maybe you occasionally save a few minutes, but you are diminished for it. With each use you are further from your human potential.

                                    C This user is from outside of this forum
                                    C This user is from outside of this forum
                                    closeted_unionist@mastodon.social
                                    wrote sidst redigeret af
                                    #19

                                    @benlockwood Frankly, I've gotten to the point to tolerate AI. You want crappy unmaintainable code on your codebase? Fine, just not on mine. I don't own your crappy code , the company does.

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • wraptile@fosstodon.orgW wraptile@fosstodon.org

                                      @wilkuu @benlockwood it absolutely makes you a better biker. I'm not sure how far how far this bike analogy can get us here but there's more to life and career that dishing out code. Yesterday I learned about cloudflare tunnels just because I had to ship something which in turn lead me to learn about fortifying my local network with techniques I would have never bothered with.

                                      Most of human knowledge is transferable, we are not paperclip factory machines ­— we're people.

                                      wilkuu@hachyderm.ioW This user is from outside of this forum
                                      wilkuu@hachyderm.ioW This user is from outside of this forum
                                      wilkuu@hachyderm.io
                                      wrote sidst redigeret af
                                      #20

                                      @wraptile @benlockwood

                                      A part of getting better at programming is learning how to get more done with less code. Using AI removes the incentive to learn how to create this leverage.

                                      I agree that typing less is a benefit.
                                      But most people learned math by doing basic addition and multiplication a bunch, it works the same with programming.

                                      wraptile@fosstodon.orgW 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • jack@xeno.glyphpress.comJ jack@xeno.glyphpress.com

                                        @benlockwood That's a heck of a claim when some of us are using AI as a prosthesis for things like poor executive function or ADHD.

                                        I have an AI assistant I've set up to have context about all my projects & their status.

                                        If I have a bad brain day where I'm foggy/can't focus, I can ask the AI to help me figure out what I should be working on.

                                        That makes me MORE myself, not less.

                                        And anyway, I'll take a handshake with Lucifer over Yahweh any day. The Devil has integrity.

                                        #ai #llm #disability

                                        sus@timeloop.cafeS This user is from outside of this forum
                                        sus@timeloop.cafeS This user is from outside of this forum
                                        sus@timeloop.cafe
                                        wrote sidst redigeret af
                                        #21

                                        @jack it was hard to read this without hearing echoes of all the ways using accessibility tools and adaptations are treated as “accepting weakness,” “giving up”, etc even though I’m sure that’s not what @benlockwood was thinking about

                                        jack@xeno.glyphpress.comJ 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • wilkuu@hachyderm.ioW wilkuu@hachyderm.io

                                          @wraptile @benlockwood

                                          A part of getting better at programming is learning how to get more done with less code. Using AI removes the incentive to learn how to create this leverage.

                                          I agree that typing less is a benefit.
                                          But most people learned math by doing basic addition and multiplication a bunch, it works the same with programming.

                                          wraptile@fosstodon.orgW This user is from outside of this forum
                                          wraptile@fosstodon.orgW This user is from outside of this forum
                                          wraptile@fosstodon.org
                                          wrote sidst redigeret af
                                          #22

                                          @wilkuu @benlockwood now you're conflating two things: memorization and growth.

                                          For growth we can already agree that diversification and exploration are very important which AI tools absolutely enable.

                                          For memorization blind repetition is not the way to go either. The most effective memorization strategy rn is spaced repetition and you might hit that with writing same code over and over but you can also hit it (even better) by writing the same code ever 2 days or even less often.

                                          wilkuu@hachyderm.ioW 1 Reply Last reply
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