"A study of physicians in Poland who specialize in endoscopy — the use of flexible probes to examine the inside of the human body — shows how quickly AI tools can erode human abilities.
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@remixtures wow, apparently physicians are susceptible to the same issues with automation as pilots, nuclear power plant operators, airplane mechanics, operating engineers in general, train operators, drivers, and security guards. Shocking. I am shocked. Shocked that society's full of bros who believe anything different.
Yeah but “more studies are needed to confirm the phenomenon”
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"A study of physicians in Poland who specialize in endoscopy — the use of flexible probes to examine the inside of the human body — shows how quickly AI tools can erode human abilities. The physicians, who had all performed at least 2,000 colonoscopies during their careers, were given access to an AI system that analyses colonoscopy images in real time and flags a type of precancerous intestinal lesion called an adenoma. The tool was available to the specialists on some days but not on others.
Once physicians began using it, their performance dropped significantly whenever the system was unavailable. During the three-month period before the AI tool was introduced, the specialists found at least one adenoma during 28.4% of colonoscopies. During the three-month period after the tool was introduced, the adenoma detection rate for colonoscopies performed without AI assistance decreased to 22.4%.
Gastroenterology and Hepatology, suggest that even highly skilled professionals might get worse at tasks that their job requires as they become more dependent on AI tools, says Robert Wachter, a physician at the University of California, San Francisco, who is the author of a book on how AI tools are transforming health care. The study authors say that continuous exposure to such tools can cause clinicians to become “less motivated, less focused, and less responsible when making cognitive decisions without AI assistance”.
Co-author Yuichi Mori, a physician-researcher at the University of Oslo, says that more studies are needed to confirm the phenomenon. But people who use AI tools should be aware that they risk losing some of their skills, he adds. “There is no established solution against deskilling right now. It should be a very hot research topic in the next decade.”"
@remixtures These replies are unquestionably the most varied and interesting thoughts on AI / LLMs that I've seen concentrated.
- Deskilling or respecializing in management?
https://mastodon.social/@renardboy/116782980977029184
https://mas.to/@hopeless/116782907360104119
- Foraging for food replaced with determining if sky food is not lethal, preferring not to go back to foraging (among professionals).
https://mstdn.social/@caitp/116783194421510776- AI boom = dotcom bubble
- Skills not reinforced
https://mastodon.social/@michielw/116783214526961483
- Value, proving it
https://mastodon.social/@wandrecanada/116783029605465305 -
"A study of physicians in Poland who specialize in endoscopy — the use of flexible probes to examine the inside of the human body — shows how quickly AI tools can erode human abilities. The physicians, who had all performed at least 2,000 colonoscopies during their careers, were given access to an AI system that analyses colonoscopy images in real time and flags a type of precancerous intestinal lesion called an adenoma. The tool was available to the specialists on some days but not on others.
Once physicians began using it, their performance dropped significantly whenever the system was unavailable. During the three-month period before the AI tool was introduced, the specialists found at least one adenoma during 28.4% of colonoscopies. During the three-month period after the tool was introduced, the adenoma detection rate for colonoscopies performed without AI assistance decreased to 22.4%.
Gastroenterology and Hepatology, suggest that even highly skilled professionals might get worse at tasks that their job requires as they become more dependent on AI tools, says Robert Wachter, a physician at the University of California, San Francisco, who is the author of a book on how AI tools are transforming health care. The study authors say that continuous exposure to such tools can cause clinicians to become “less motivated, less focused, and less responsible when making cognitive decisions without AI assistance”.
Co-author Yuichi Mori, a physician-researcher at the University of Oslo, says that more studies are needed to confirm the phenomenon. But people who use AI tools should be aware that they risk losing some of their skills, he adds. “There is no established solution against deskilling right now. It should be a very hot research topic in the next decade.”"
@remixtures I've been a graphic designer my whole career, pretty much. It's long been observed, in fact my first boss told me on day *one*, that you need to stay "on the boards" and he regretted that he hadn't.
Skill fade is both real and much quicker than you think.
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"A study of physicians in Poland who specialize in endoscopy — the use of flexible probes to examine the inside of the human body — shows how quickly AI tools can erode human abilities. The physicians, who had all performed at least 2,000 colonoscopies during their careers, were given access to an AI system that analyses colonoscopy images in real time and flags a type of precancerous intestinal lesion called an adenoma. The tool was available to the specialists on some days but not on others.
Once physicians began using it, their performance dropped significantly whenever the system was unavailable. During the three-month period before the AI tool was introduced, the specialists found at least one adenoma during 28.4% of colonoscopies. During the three-month period after the tool was introduced, the adenoma detection rate for colonoscopies performed without AI assistance decreased to 22.4%.
Gastroenterology and Hepatology, suggest that even highly skilled professionals might get worse at tasks that their job requires as they become more dependent on AI tools, says Robert Wachter, a physician at the University of California, San Francisco, who is the author of a book on how AI tools are transforming health care. The study authors say that continuous exposure to such tools can cause clinicians to become “less motivated, less focused, and less responsible when making cognitive decisions without AI assistance”.
Co-author Yuichi Mori, a physician-researcher at the University of Oslo, says that more studies are needed to confirm the phenomenon. But people who use AI tools should be aware that they risk losing some of their skills, he adds. “There is no established solution against deskilling right now. It should be a very hot research topic in the next decade.”"
@remixtures
Taking this a step further, that when you stop doing things for yourself, you lose the ability to do it - what does that say about a certain class of people who have people do *everything* for them? -
@remixtures Yep, AI lets people become sort of lazy.
@Fitzibitz @remixtures Worse: whoever made the decision that AI be used, it then forces people to "become sort of lazy"
Then their boss, who made the decision, will pass the blame on to the people using it
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"A study of physicians in Poland who specialize in endoscopy — the use of flexible probes to examine the inside of the human body — shows how quickly AI tools can erode human abilities. The physicians, who had all performed at least 2,000 colonoscopies during their careers, were given access to an AI system that analyses colonoscopy images in real time and flags a type of precancerous intestinal lesion called an adenoma. The tool was available to the specialists on some days but not on others.
Once physicians began using it, their performance dropped significantly whenever the system was unavailable. During the three-month period before the AI tool was introduced, the specialists found at least one adenoma during 28.4% of colonoscopies. During the three-month period after the tool was introduced, the adenoma detection rate for colonoscopies performed without AI assistance decreased to 22.4%.
Gastroenterology and Hepatology, suggest that even highly skilled professionals might get worse at tasks that their job requires as they become more dependent on AI tools, says Robert Wachter, a physician at the University of California, San Francisco, who is the author of a book on how AI tools are transforming health care. The study authors say that continuous exposure to such tools can cause clinicians to become “less motivated, less focused, and less responsible when making cognitive decisions without AI assistance”.
Co-author Yuichi Mori, a physician-researcher at the University of Oslo, says that more studies are needed to confirm the phenomenon. But people who use AI tools should be aware that they risk losing some of their skills, he adds. “There is no established solution against deskilling right now. It should be a very hot research topic in the next decade.”"
@remixtures@tldr.nettime.org so apparently the main reason to use ’AI‘ is that it makes us more valuable to employers, but the main reason to not use ‘AI’ is that it makes us lose skills valuable to employers long-term. I’m not convinced by either of them.
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"A study of physicians in Poland who specialize in endoscopy — the use of flexible probes to examine the inside of the human body — shows how quickly AI tools can erode human abilities. The physicians, who had all performed at least 2,000 colonoscopies during their careers, were given access to an AI system that analyses colonoscopy images in real time and flags a type of precancerous intestinal lesion called an adenoma. The tool was available to the specialists on some days but not on others.
Once physicians began using it, their performance dropped significantly whenever the system was unavailable. During the three-month period before the AI tool was introduced, the specialists found at least one adenoma during 28.4% of colonoscopies. During the three-month period after the tool was introduced, the adenoma detection rate for colonoscopies performed without AI assistance decreased to 22.4%.
Gastroenterology and Hepatology, suggest that even highly skilled professionals might get worse at tasks that their job requires as they become more dependent on AI tools, says Robert Wachter, a physician at the University of California, San Francisco, who is the author of a book on how AI tools are transforming health care. The study authors say that continuous exposure to such tools can cause clinicians to become “less motivated, less focused, and less responsible when making cognitive decisions without AI assistance”.
Co-author Yuichi Mori, a physician-researcher at the University of Oslo, says that more studies are needed to confirm the phenomenon. But people who use AI tools should be aware that they risk losing some of their skills, he adds. “There is no established solution against deskilling right now. It should be a very hot research topic in the next decade.”"
"are Henry Ford's assembly lines de-skilling coach builders?"
same energy and despite my huge reservations about the current private ownership and direction of AI I'm feeling that lots of AI scepticism is missing the point. It's private ownership and capitalism that are the threats as usual, not technology.
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@remixtures wow, apparently physicians are susceptible to the same issues with automation as pilots, nuclear power plant operators, airplane mechanics, operating engineers in general, train operators, drivers, and security guards. Shocking. I am shocked. Shocked that society's full of bros who believe anything different.
@wronglang @remixtures thankfully programmers, politicians and CEOs aren’t susceptible to those, though. /s
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@remixtures No one will have the skills to conduct research on unskilling in a decade.
@BLTpizza @remixtures And when we are not looking, it is not there! Problem solved! /s
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@wandrecanada @remixtures very true, but then of course the real metric has been "number of adenomas *correctly* identified" all along. And, of course, false positives are not exclusive to AI.
My stance on AI has many nuances, but I am highly skeptical of the "it makes us stupid" narrative. What is lost in some aspects due to acquired reliance must be gained in other aspects through increased available headspace from strategic offloading.
@renardboy @wandrecanada @remixtures At least one issue is how we can continue to improve such machines if we lose the skill they’re automating.
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@renardboy @wandrecanada @remixtures At least one issue is how we can continue to improve such machines if we lose the skill they’re automating.
@donaldball @wandrecanada @remixtures But they're not automating innovation, they're automating duplication of effort.
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"A study of physicians in Poland who specialize in endoscopy — the use of flexible probes to examine the inside of the human body — shows how quickly AI tools can erode human abilities. The physicians, who had all performed at least 2,000 colonoscopies during their careers, were given access to an AI system that analyses colonoscopy images in real time and flags a type of precancerous intestinal lesion called an adenoma. The tool was available to the specialists on some days but not on others.
Once physicians began using it, their performance dropped significantly whenever the system was unavailable. During the three-month period before the AI tool was introduced, the specialists found at least one adenoma during 28.4% of colonoscopies. During the three-month period after the tool was introduced, the adenoma detection rate for colonoscopies performed without AI assistance decreased to 22.4%.
Gastroenterology and Hepatology, suggest that even highly skilled professionals might get worse at tasks that their job requires as they become more dependent on AI tools, says Robert Wachter, a physician at the University of California, San Francisco, who is the author of a book on how AI tools are transforming health care. The study authors say that continuous exposure to such tools can cause clinicians to become “less motivated, less focused, and less responsible when making cognitive decisions without AI assistance”.
Co-author Yuichi Mori, a physician-researcher at the University of Oslo, says that more studies are needed to confirm the phenomenon. But people who use AI tools should be aware that they risk losing some of their skills, he adds. “There is no established solution against deskilling right now. It should be a very hot research topic in the next decade.”"
@remixtures oh no
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@OneInterestingFact @remixtures My understanding is that (if we accept that what we're dealing with qualifies as "intelligence", which I really only do to avoid derailing conversations away from their topics) LLMs are a specific application of the larger field of machine learning.
Unless I'm wrong there is relatively little to LLMs that is specific to them and not machine learning at large, but please correct me if I am.
I'm afraid I don't know whether your assessment is correct. I see many potential uses for machine learning, When I look at LLMs I see theft and waste of resources.
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"A study of physicians in Poland who specialize in endoscopy — the use of flexible probes to examine the inside of the human body — shows how quickly AI tools can erode human abilities. The physicians, who had all performed at least 2,000 colonoscopies during their careers, were given access to an AI system that analyses colonoscopy images in real time and flags a type of precancerous intestinal lesion called an adenoma. The tool was available to the specialists on some days but not on others.
Once physicians began using it, their performance dropped significantly whenever the system was unavailable. During the three-month period before the AI tool was introduced, the specialists found at least one adenoma during 28.4% of colonoscopies. During the three-month period after the tool was introduced, the adenoma detection rate for colonoscopies performed without AI assistance decreased to 22.4%.
Gastroenterology and Hepatology, suggest that even highly skilled professionals might get worse at tasks that their job requires as they become more dependent on AI tools, says Robert Wachter, a physician at the University of California, San Francisco, who is the author of a book on how AI tools are transforming health care. The study authors say that continuous exposure to such tools can cause clinicians to become “less motivated, less focused, and less responsible when making cognitive decisions without AI assistance”.
Co-author Yuichi Mori, a physician-researcher at the University of Oslo, says that more studies are needed to confirm the phenomenon. But people who use AI tools should be aware that they risk losing some of their skills, he adds. “There is no established solution against deskilling right now. It should be a very hot research topic in the next decade.”"
did anyone else bother to click thru and read the abstract of the gastroenterology paper ?
this doesn't look that convincing to me, cause the number of cases is to small
quote
Between Sept 8, 2021, and March 9, 2022, 1443 patients underwent non-AI assisted colonoscopy before (n=795) and after (n=648) the introduction of AI (median age 61 years [IQR 45–70], 847 [58·7%] female, 596 [41·3%] male). The ADR of standard colonoscopy decreased significantly from 28·4% (226 of 795) before to 22·4% (145 of 648) after exposure to AI,
Unquote
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langas/article/PIIS2468-1253(25)00133-5/abstract -
@remixtures I've been a graphic designer my whole career, pretty much. It's long been observed, in fact my first boss told me on day *one*, that you need to stay "on the boards" and he regretted that he hadn't.
Skill fade is both real and much quicker than you think.
Friends:
did any of you actually bother to click thru and read the abstract of the endoscopy study ??
anyone ???
cause to my eyes, if you read the abstract in this pay walled article, despite the authors claim of statistical significance, the numbers are not convincing
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Friends:
did any of you actually bother to click thru and read the abstract of the endoscopy study ??
anyone ???
cause to my eyes, if you read the abstract in this pay walled article, despite the authors claim of statistical significance, the numbers are not convincing
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"A study of physicians in Poland who specialize in endoscopy — the use of flexible probes to examine the inside of the human body — shows how quickly AI tools can erode human abilities. The physicians, who had all performed at least 2,000 colonoscopies during their careers, were given access to an AI system that analyses colonoscopy images in real time and flags a type of precancerous intestinal lesion called an adenoma. The tool was available to the specialists on some days but not on others.
Once physicians began using it, their performance dropped significantly whenever the system was unavailable. During the three-month period before the AI tool was introduced, the specialists found at least one adenoma during 28.4% of colonoscopies. During the three-month period after the tool was introduced, the adenoma detection rate for colonoscopies performed without AI assistance decreased to 22.4%.
Gastroenterology and Hepatology, suggest that even highly skilled professionals might get worse at tasks that their job requires as they become more dependent on AI tools, says Robert Wachter, a physician at the University of California, San Francisco, who is the author of a book on how AI tools are transforming health care. The study authors say that continuous exposure to such tools can cause clinicians to become “less motivated, less focused, and less responsible when making cognitive decisions without AI assistance”.
Co-author Yuichi Mori, a physician-researcher at the University of Oslo, says that more studies are needed to confirm the phenomenon. But people who use AI tools should be aware that they risk losing some of their skills, he adds. “There is no established solution against deskilling right now. It should be a very hot research topic in the next decade.”"
@remixtures Well-made point, and in my view not overly surprising.
As an analyst I've always found that, once specialist tools find their way into the mainstream, everyone cheers. But only because it smells of "equality" and - to managers - of money saved.
But results quality drops markedly. Mostly because mainstream users rarely build mental estimates of results *before* the machine delivers them, and so believe each answer implicitly. Unlike the "expensive" trained specialists.
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"A study of physicians in Poland who specialize in endoscopy — the use of flexible probes to examine the inside of the human body — shows how quickly AI tools can erode human abilities. The physicians, who had all performed at least 2,000 colonoscopies during their careers, were given access to an AI system that analyses colonoscopy images in real time and flags a type of precancerous intestinal lesion called an adenoma. The tool was available to the specialists on some days but not on others.
Once physicians began using it, their performance dropped significantly whenever the system was unavailable. During the three-month period before the AI tool was introduced, the specialists found at least one adenoma during 28.4% of colonoscopies. During the three-month period after the tool was introduced, the adenoma detection rate for colonoscopies performed without AI assistance decreased to 22.4%.
Gastroenterology and Hepatology, suggest that even highly skilled professionals might get worse at tasks that their job requires as they become more dependent on AI tools, says Robert Wachter, a physician at the University of California, San Francisco, who is the author of a book on how AI tools are transforming health care. The study authors say that continuous exposure to such tools can cause clinicians to become “less motivated, less focused, and less responsible when making cognitive decisions without AI assistance”.
Co-author Yuichi Mori, a physician-researcher at the University of Oslo, says that more studies are needed to confirm the phenomenon. But people who use AI tools should be aware that they risk losing some of their skills, he adds. “There is no established solution against deskilling right now. It should be a very hot research topic in the next decade.”"
@remixtures
Nice. Is there any comparative KPI showing how effective human diagnosis is compared with AI-assisted diagnosis?
Because I am going to choose the most accurate method available, not the one that makes some anti-technology nostalgics feel morally comfortable.
I am not willing to increase my chances of getting cancer just to protect someone’s romantic fantasy about medicine being better when it involves fewer computers.
--
Uriel Fanelli
Using Aktor: https://git.keinpfusch.net/loweel/Aktor-2
XMPP: uriel@keinpfusch.net
old blog: https://blog.keinpfusch.net
new blog: https://keinpfusch.net -
Yeah but “more studies are needed to confirm the phenomenon”
@urlyman @remixtures yeah or some people need to think about what H0 should be should be here
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"A study of physicians in Poland who specialize in endoscopy — the use of flexible probes to examine the inside of the human body — shows how quickly AI tools can erode human abilities. The physicians, who had all performed at least 2,000 colonoscopies during their careers, were given access to an AI system that analyses colonoscopy images in real time and flags a type of precancerous intestinal lesion called an adenoma. The tool was available to the specialists on some days but not on others.
Once physicians began using it, their performance dropped significantly whenever the system was unavailable. During the three-month period before the AI tool was introduced, the specialists found at least one adenoma during 28.4% of colonoscopies. During the three-month period after the tool was introduced, the adenoma detection rate for colonoscopies performed without AI assistance decreased to 22.4%.
Gastroenterology and Hepatology, suggest that even highly skilled professionals might get worse at tasks that their job requires as they become more dependent on AI tools, says Robert Wachter, a physician at the University of California, San Francisco, who is the author of a book on how AI tools are transforming health care. The study authors say that continuous exposure to such tools can cause clinicians to become “less motivated, less focused, and less responsible when making cognitive decisions without AI assistance”.
Co-author Yuichi Mori, a physician-researcher at the University of Oslo, says that more studies are needed to confirm the phenomenon. But people who use AI tools should be aware that they risk losing some of their skills, he adds. “There is no established solution against deskilling right now. It should be a very hot research topic in the next decade.”"
@remixtures
Can a patient request no ai review their scans? I don't recall consenting to such activities but I don't know what the rules are for these things.
