Yo, I'm heading up a brand-new community project.
-
@diazona @AgentOrange96 I'm intentionally not trying to lay out a series of pedantic rules…
Here's a previous response which might clarify: https://indieweb.social/@jaredwhite/116993388938146986
Also it doesn't have to apply to *everything* you might do now or in the future, just that you can point to a tangible software project(s) being used "in production" which can be credibly claimed was hand-coded that you stand by.
@jaredwhite @diazona @AgentOrange96 Thanks for the clarification. With that I can sign up, as well.
I've built some LLM things for the sake of learning, but when the outcome matters, I code by hand.
-
@jaredwhite I assume that you mean without AI?
But with compilers on a computer and not with pen and paper.
What is the main motivation for not using LLMs as part of the development process?
I am asking mainly to understand as I am head of studies at a department of computer science and we are currently getting ready to put more coding with LLMs into courses.
@UlrikNyman @jaredwhite "What is the main motivation for not using LLMs as part of the development process?"
The same reason you're not supposed to read the Cliff's Notes when you're studying literature: it defeats the purpose entirely. Your students won't actually *learn* a damn thing if they just get it all from the plagiarism bot.
-
@jaredwhite is there more exact info on what this list implies? I don't want to add myself if I'm not supposed to.
1. I currently rarely use LLMs when the web search just super fails me, about 1-2 tiimes a month, to locate a tech source.
2. If somebody brought forward LLM-located bugs I would fix them (without using LLMs for the fix, of course).
3. And perhaps I could see myself have a local LLM point out problem spots without letting it make a fix suggestion. Although currently I have no plans for that either, but who knows I suppose.
@ell1e Everyone's going to land differently on these questions in the abstract. My intention with this list is to focus squarely on the output. "We write code by hand." I mean that in the literal sense.
Did you do some research using LLMs? Maybe or maybe not. Did you read a suggestion by an LLM? Maybe or maybe not. It's not really material to this conversation. The question is: are you producing output-which-goes-to-production for a project yourself rather than an "agent"?
If so, please apply!
-
Yo, I'm heading up a brand-new community project.
We write code by hand.
️It's a growing opt-in directory of software developers who write code by hand. When you hear someone tell you “nobody does that” you can point to this and say “well these folks do.”
If you're #ProCraft and care about the future of handcrafted software, please add yourself to the list! I'd love to see this grow to 100s of signatories (I know y'all are out there!) and really send a message.
@jaredwhite there are dozens of us!
-
@crumbletiltskin I can express complex abstract logical thought processes using an English-like grammar in binary?!
01111001 01100101 01110011
-
01111001 01100101 01110011
@crumbletiltskin 01100011 01101111 01101111 01101100
-
@jaredwhite there are dozens of us!
@trey many dozens of us now, which is awesome!
-
UPDATE: I'm in the thick of a client project atm but thank you thank you to everyone who's been opening up PRs and I'll try to go through the backlog shortly!
Whew, OK I made it through all the submissions. As of July 27 at 8:17PM PDT, we have 74 signatories. At this rate we'll likely double that by this time tomorrow. Wowee! Y'all have some amazing projects to share and stories to tell!
-
@Derek_DIY of course! writing HTML or CSS also!
@jaredwhite @Derek_DIY HTML/CSS? PHP/MySQL? Those count? You are doing wonders to battle my imposter syndrome!
I fully intend to submit my name on the strength of my still functioning and live hand-coded author's vanity web site and blog, most of which I constructed in 2002 or thereabouts - just as soon as I figure out how one edits a file in a fork and submits a pull request.
(My never having used GitHub before is part of the imposter syndrome.)
-
@jaredwhite @Derek_DIY HTML/CSS? PHP/MySQL? Those count? You are doing wonders to battle my imposter syndrome!
I fully intend to submit my name on the strength of my still functioning and live hand-coded author's vanity web site and blog, most of which I constructed in 2002 or thereabouts - just as soon as I figure out how one edits a file in a fork and submits a pull request.
(My never having used GitHub before is part of the imposter syndrome.)
@jaredwhite @Derek_DIY (To be clear, I'm not asking for any handholding on the GitHub thing - I'm just not gonna try to tackle it late at night after roller derby practice. See you after a good night's sleep!)
-
@jaredwhite I assume that you mean without AI?
But with compilers on a computer and not with pen and paper.
What is the main motivation for not using LLMs as part of the development process?
I am asking mainly to understand as I am head of studies at a department of computer science and we are currently getting ready to put more coding with LLMs into courses.
@UlrikNyman @jaredwhite LLMs produce bad code. LLMs get in the way of understanding what the computer is doing, so you most definitely can't learn how to program with an LLM. LLMs cause a drastic loss of problem solving and critical thinking skills in their users which makes them highly addictive. They're trained on stolen material and are enormously damaging to the environment making their use unconscionable.
Personally, I feel like any one of those would be reason enough not to ever use them.
-
T tofticles@helvede.net shared this topic
