“I poisoned my own mind.”
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RE: https://eigenmagic.net/@vampiress/116859241032699772
“I poisoned my own mind.”
More and more programmers are writing retrospectives like this — and a huge THANK YOU to Elissa for doing so — where they discover that Programming Is Not Special.
It is particularly interesting to read this from a solo game developer who is both a programmer and an artist, who began by thinking the programing isn’t art, and discovered by an emotionally torturous process that it actually is.
@glyph At least IMO people use AI for different things and it's like a siren song. They fell for it, but they are on the path to recovery realizing just how poisonous AI is and sharing their story.
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Also anti-AI followers I shouldn’t have to say this but in these trying times I believe I must: if you harass the author of this piece, even just to say something snide like “well what did you expect, using the lie machine, you deserved to feel bad” then I repudiate you and you will never see the light of heaven. Please do not be part of the problem.
>well what did you expect, using the lie machine
why does saying this make someone part of the problem? what problem?
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>well what did you expect, using the lie machine
why does saying this make someone part of the problem? what problem?
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ah, got it. yeah, growing should not be harassed.
well, there are exceptions... like laying off thousands of people in favor of AI and then rehiring them. there, i cannot supress a "we told you so"
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RE: https://eigenmagic.net/@vampiress/116859241032699772
“I poisoned my own mind.”
More and more programmers are writing retrospectives like this — and a huge THANK YOU to Elissa for doing so — where they discover that Programming Is Not Special.
It is particularly interesting to read this from a solo game developer who is both a programmer and an artist, who began by thinking the programing isn’t art, and discovered by an emotionally torturous process that it actually is.
@glyph “I poisoned my own mind. Maybe I can go back to them in future, starting from scratch and doing them the right way, but for now, they’re shelved.”
The door is still open, not a great ending for the post. I don’t get why people are so tempted by laziness and cognitive decay.
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@glyph “I poisoned my own mind. Maybe I can go back to them in future, starting from scratch and doing them the right way, but for now, they’re shelved.”
The door is still open, not a great ending for the post. I don’t get why people are so tempted by laziness and cognitive decay.
@chroma wait why do you say this is not a great ending? what door is still open?
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@chroma wait why do you say this is not a great ending? what door is still open?
@glyph read the quoted paragraph, I will quote it again, with emphasis: “back to them in the future (…) doing them the right way”.
She suggests there’s a “right way” of doing LLMs.
This kind of person doesn’t learn anything, they still think it’s “a tool”. They still jerk off to the false and despicable idea of compressing days of work in seconds regarding creative endeavors.
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@glyph read the quoted paragraph, I will quote it again, with emphasis: “back to them in the future (…) doing them the right way”.
She suggests there’s a “right way” of doing LLMs.
This kind of person doesn’t learn anything, they still think it’s “a tool”. They still jerk off to the false and despicable idea of compressing days of work in seconds regarding creative endeavors.
@chroma "Maybe I can go back to them in future, ***starting from scratch*** and doing them the right way" (emphasis mine)
The author is suggesting that the ideas are now ruined by LLM residue, and that she needs to shelve them until she can forget the dispiriting sludge that they produced, doing them again by herself ***from scratch***, i.e. *NOT* using an LLM, but with the same *idea*.
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@chroma "Maybe I can go back to them in future, ***starting from scratch*** and doing them the right way" (emphasis mine)
The author is suggesting that the ideas are now ruined by LLM residue, and that she needs to shelve them until she can forget the dispiriting sludge that they produced, doing them again by herself ***from scratch***, i.e. *NOT* using an LLM, but with the same *idea*.
@chroma Even if the author actually held the position that you are suggesting, the suggestion that this "kind of person" is incapable of learning is bafflingly dismissive, given that this is at the end of a lucid exploration of a profound harm that LLMs can do. Presumably if they imagine some possible future valid use, it would be *vastly* different.
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@chroma "Maybe I can go back to them in future, ***starting from scratch*** and doing them the right way" (emphasis mine)
The author is suggesting that the ideas are now ruined by LLM residue, and that she needs to shelve them until she can forget the dispiriting sludge that they produced, doing them again by herself ***from scratch***, i.e. *NOT* using an LLM, but with the same *idea*.
@glyph My bad, I misunderstood that paragraph’s idea by reading diagonally and fast.
But I disagree, the only viable use of LLMs is multiline (5-10 max) autocomplete after extensive training with a specific repo tbh.
They’re just glorified autocomplete, any other use out of this is pure brain rot that isn’t far from Markov chains garbage.
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>well what did you expect, using the lie machine
why does saying this make someone part of the problem? what problem?
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@glyph My bad, I misunderstood that paragraph’s idea by reading diagonally and fast.
But I disagree, the only viable use of LLMs is multiline (5-10 max) autocomplete after extensive training with a specific repo tbh.
They’re just glorified autocomplete, any other use out of this is pure brain rot that isn’t far from Markov chains garbage.
@chroma My position is actually more maximalist than yours, apparently; I don't even think they should be used as autocomplete, certainly not as much as 10 lines at a time; that just creates an opportunity to gloss over 1-character bugs without even really boosting productivity much. I am not even sure that search autocomplete is safe https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4535163&__cf_chl_f_tk=jNrJBWpgluZQNLfU_zryzI22167PyWPRvLUGILwdQMA-1783179018-1.0.1.1-7Cazxa1x8rp3flYrUDPfOao56Hj5cZyOxqFV5zWTgn0
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@chroma My position is actually more maximalist than yours, apparently; I don't even think they should be used as autocomplete, certainly not as much as 10 lines at a time; that just creates an opportunity to gloss over 1-character bugs without even really boosting productivity much. I am not even sure that search autocomplete is safe https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4535163&__cf_chl_f_tk=jNrJBWpgluZQNLfU_zryzI22167PyWPRvLUGILwdQMA-1783179018-1.0.1.1-7Cazxa1x8rp3flYrUDPfOao56Hj5cZyOxqFV5zWTgn0
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@chroma my point is just that if a person *were* to hold such a position, dismissing their entire capacity to learn out of hand would be pretty extreme.
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After tech enthusiasts finally figured out how to build an ocean-drinking, sky-burning, human-poisoning, soul-dismantling machine just to try and push artists and creatives out of the picture, and one finally had the realization that their interests and processes aren't that different after all from artists.
I don't feel satisfaction, but I don't feel much sympathy either, as tech "progress" turns our planet into an ash heap and disintegrates what little culture we have left.
@contrasocial Elissa is an indie game developer and an artist on top of that? Not anywhere near your "tech-minded" stereotype.
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@chroma my point is just that if a person *were* to hold such a position, dismissing their entire capacity to learn out of hand would be pretty extreme.
@glyph I understand, it's just that I despise this technology so much that I become overly aggressive and reactive to everyone that holds a position that isn't "I hate it" or, at very least, "I hate it under its current form".
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@glyph I understand, it's just that I despise this technology so much that I become overly aggressive and reactive to everyone that holds a position that isn't "I hate it" or, at very least, "I hate it under its current form".
@chroma I can certainly sympathize, but if we want to be convincing (and, like, good people) we need to deal with those feelings of aggression in a more healthy way.
Have you seen https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y85nqc2zm7M by any chance? It's worth a watch.
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RE: https://eigenmagic.net/@vampiress/116859241032699772
“I poisoned my own mind.”
More and more programmers are writing retrospectives like this — and a huge THANK YOU to Elissa for doing so — where they discover that Programming Is Not Special.
It is particularly interesting to read this from a solo game developer who is both a programmer and an artist, who began by thinking the programing isn’t art, and discovered by an emotionally torturous process that it actually is.
@glyph I love this line: “no matter how many details you put in a prompt to an LLM, there are still decisions you’re ceding to it.”
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RE: https://eigenmagic.net/@vampiress/116859241032699772
“I poisoned my own mind.”
More and more programmers are writing retrospectives like this — and a huge THANK YOU to Elissa for doing so — where they discover that Programming Is Not Special.
It is particularly interesting to read this from a solo game developer who is both a programmer and an artist, who began by thinking the programing isn’t art, and discovered by an emotionally torturous process that it actually is.
@glyph Yes, *game* programming is clearly art, but some other kinds of programming might not be. Still, the boring, non-art programming is necessary for shipping usable software.
