I didn't want to be break this story over here but since no one else seems to be posting about it here I am sharing a screenshot from the other side with @scan's post.
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@liaizon @jowek @ukrudt @tak @ruben @magnus
Yes haven't checked out the state of petition-software lately.
One low effort/complexity way of doing it would be to write a letter in ukrudt's hedgedoc and just ask projects to sign it if they agree - sign it by way of writing their name in the bottom: https://hedgedoc.ukrudt.net/ - we can then create a public read-only link and share that.
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hey @Wtebbens have you seen this thread? seeing as you just set up a fiscal host on Open Collective and have been talking about the need to move away from Big Tech I would think chiming in, in this situation would be useful
@liaizon I am profoundly worried about age verification and more so to see @opencollective join the Peter Thiel backed Persona.
We're here together precisely to fight against these techbros, to resist tech monopolies and surveillance capitalism, to help people become autonomous and assure basic human values as privacy and solidarity.
We should be able to give donations without becoming part of the authoritarian tech stack? Well that's what we work on together. So let's hope OpenCollective reverts course.
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@sef I mean, probably the most famous example:
https://lwn.net/Articles/131657/However, note that we're discussing building services for _ourselves_, not other people. We can throw together something that's extremely rough around the edges that scratches our itches, but isn't ready for the rest of humanity!
@Andres4NY I see, I suppose that’d be the fully existing although under-utilized LiberaPay in this case.
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@Andres4NY I see, I suppose that’d be the fully existing although under-utilized LiberaPay in this case.
@sef LP hardly resembles OC though, of which the ease of invoicing and reimbursements happen through its pretty unique ecosystem of fiscal hosts. The fiscal host system is basically a regulatory loophole, bound to be either shut down or regulated massively.
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@sef LP hardly resembles OC though, of which the ease of invoicing and reimbursements happen through its pretty unique ecosystem of fiscal hosts. The fiscal host system is basically a regulatory loophole, bound to be either shut down or regulated massively.
@Andres4NY @nullagent @liaizon @scan Perhaps I’m exaggerating, but it seems to me that FOSS people slept on this particular itch a decade too long turning it into a festering wound in that we’re out of options wrt decent payment rails. Another frontend for PayPal or Stripe isn’t going to change that. Only two options I see are setting up foundations for the most vital projects or slip into full regulatory evasion mode, none of which seem very feasible.
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@liaizon what this "bridge" is, and who the hosts are that potentially need a kyc-persona. i'm lost when people start using abbreviations, and i'm doubly lost when they shroud those abbreviations in vague abstractions.
@malte @liaizon If all the fiscal hosts are free to choose whatever KYC provider they want, why did Open Source Collective choose Persona? And isn't Open Source Collective (the fiscal host) the same people running Open Collective (the platform), just wearing different hats to let us know that the KYC integration developed by OC has nothing to do with what KYC that OSC chooses?
(abbreviations used on purpose to emphasize the silliness of OC finger-pointing at OSC)
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RE: https://social.wake.st/@liaizon/116206925371202010
I didn't want to be break this story over here but since no one else seems to be posting about it here I am sharing a screenshot from the other side with @scan's post.
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Open Collective is adding KYC from Peter Thiel backed Persona. If you are not familiar with Persona: https://www.openrightsgroup.org/press-releases/roblox-reddit-and-discord-users-compelled-to-use-biometric-id-system-backed-by-palantir-co-founder-peter-thiel
Here is the github issue where its being worked on:
https://github.com/opencollective/opencollective/issues/8609 -
@db0 that actually reminds me that that reaching out to their competitors for "a take" isn't a bad idea
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@alxndr @liaizon Ugh, thank you for pointing this out. We are very sorry to learn this. We will do our best to find an alternative but we're pretty tied to OC at the moment.
Indeed subscribing on our flagship instance is another way to support the project, you get benefits in return such as more storage and priority support.
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@alxndr @liaizon Ugh, thank you for pointing this out. We are very sorry to learn this. We will do our best to find an alternative but we're pretty tied to OC at the moment.
Indeed subscribing on our flagship instance is another way to support the project, you get benefits in return such as more storage and priority support.
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I work with an NPO which currently uses Open Collective and likely would vote to stop using Open Collective if this level of corporate doxxing is required to interact with their platform.
Don't dare open source hackers, we can switch/build services in a heartbeat.
We are not trapped like teenagers hooked on discord, we can simply leave and never look back if forced.
@nullagent @liaizon @scan wait, is that Open Collective, or Open Source Collective? Are those the same?
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@nullagent @liaizon @scan wait, is that Open Collective, or Open Source Collective? Are those the same?
@mosttoast @nullagent @scan
They are different. Open Collective is the software, Open Source Collective is the US based fiscal host of many projects in OC but not the only host. There is also Open Source Europe which is the other big fiscal host that is on OC. -
RE: https://social.wake.st/@liaizon/116206925371202010
I didn't want to be break this story over here but since no one else seems to be posting about it here I am sharing a screenshot from the other side with @scan's post.
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@liaizon Not antithetical at all. If someone chooses to not do the KYC with Persona, we respect their privacy and will offer other solutions. And no, we are not passing any user data to Persona. The integration is only intended for us (fiscal host admins) to copy/paste the persona inquiry ID into a reference field in the OC platform to make it easier for us to link into Persona later to check on the verification status. That's it. The ID# and the status is all we bring from Persona to OC.
QUESTION:
are you asking this from representatives of an incorporated non-profit entity or from individuals who aren't incorporated? -
QUESTION 2
you are doing this because you won't deal directly with USA banks and instead use Paypal (a Persona and Palantir related company) as a middleman, correct?
i was shocked to see the onus OSC put on people by using Paypal ―a company notorious for robbing millions from NPOs and independent workers― instead of doing direct deposits to FDIC banks which already do all the security & identity verification.
what’s in it for OSC to force payments thru Paypal?
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@liaizon Yes, I have a draft response on how we intend to use the platform connection, but I'd like the engineers to review it for accuracy, as the feature is still in development.
I will say it was fundamental for us that any personal data entered in Persona remain in Persona and any user information on the platform remain on the platform. We are not passing any user data from the platform to Persona. And if a user elects not to do our KYC with Persona, then we do our best to find another way. -
@liaizon Yes, I have a draft response on how we intend to use the platform connection, but I'd like the engineers to review it for accuracy, as the feature is still in development.
I will say it was fundamental for us that any personal data entered in Persona remain in Persona and any user information on the platform remain on the platform. We are not passing any user data from the platform to Persona. And if a user elects not to do our KYC with Persona, then we do our best to find another way. -
QUESTION 2
you are doing this because you won't deal directly with USA banks and instead use Paypal (a Persona and Palantir related company) as a middleman, correct?
i was shocked to see the onus OSC put on people by using Paypal ―a company notorious for robbing millions from NPOs and independent workers― instead of doing direct deposits to FDIC banks which already do all the security & identity verification.
what’s in it for OSC to force payments thru Paypal?
on the side. I'm told I don't have to eat it, and that it never touched my sandwich. I leave, because you're obviously fine with playing around with nasty 