I didn't want to be break this story over here but since no one else seems to be posting about it here I am sharing a screenshot from the other side with @scan's post.
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@nullagent @liaizon @scan wait, is that Open Collective, or Open Source Collective? Are those the same?
@mosttoast @nullagent @scan
They are different. Open Collective is the software, Open Source Collective is the US based fiscal host of many projects in OC but not the only host. There is also Open Source Europe which is the other big fiscal host that is on OC. -
RE: https://social.wake.st/@liaizon/116206925371202010
I didn't want to be break this story over here but since no one else seems to be posting about it here I am sharing a screenshot from the other side with @scan's post.
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@liaizon Not antithetical at all. If someone chooses to not do the KYC with Persona, we respect their privacy and will offer other solutions. And no, we are not passing any user data to Persona. The integration is only intended for us (fiscal host admins) to copy/paste the persona inquiry ID into a reference field in the OC platform to make it easier for us to link into Persona later to check on the verification status. That's it. The ID# and the status is all we bring from Persona to OC.
QUESTION:
are you asking this from representatives of an incorporated non-profit entity or from individuals who aren't incorporated? -
QUESTION 2
you are doing this because you won't deal directly with USA banks and instead use Paypal (a Persona and Palantir related company) as a middleman, correct?
i was shocked to see the onus OSC put on people by using Paypal ―a company notorious for robbing millions from NPOs and independent workers― instead of doing direct deposits to FDIC banks which already do all the security & identity verification.
what’s in it for OSC to force payments thru Paypal?
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@liaizon Yes, I have a draft response on how we intend to use the platform connection, but I'd like the engineers to review it for accuracy, as the feature is still in development.
I will say it was fundamental for us that any personal data entered in Persona remain in Persona and any user information on the platform remain on the platform. We are not passing any user data from the platform to Persona. And if a user elects not to do our KYC with Persona, then we do our best to find another way. -
@liaizon Yes, I have a draft response on how we intend to use the platform connection, but I'd like the engineers to review it for accuracy, as the feature is still in development.
I will say it was fundamental for us that any personal data entered in Persona remain in Persona and any user information on the platform remain on the platform. We are not passing any user data from the platform to Persona. And if a user elects not to do our KYC with Persona, then we do our best to find another way. -
QUESTION 2
you are doing this because you won't deal directly with USA banks and instead use Paypal (a Persona and Palantir related company) as a middleman, correct?
i was shocked to see the onus OSC put on people by using Paypal ―a company notorious for robbing millions from NPOs and independent workers― instead of doing direct deposits to FDIC banks which already do all the security & identity verification.
what’s in it for OSC to force payments thru Paypal?
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@poohlaga @liaizon this is why i won't use your services and have warned people. it’s not you. it’s the Paypal-Palantir connection.
fiscal sponsors are incredibly important but not like this. FDIC banks already do a ton of security work. i do not understand why you won't do direct deposit to individuals with an FDIC bank.
i urge you to change this policy.
Palantir is behind #ICE logistics systems. both Karp and Thiel are vocal about destroying democracy.
please, don't sustain that.
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@poohlaga @liaizon this is why i won't use your services and have warned people. it’s not you. it’s the Paypal-Palantir connection.
fiscal sponsors are incredibly important but not like this. FDIC banks already do a ton of security work. i do not understand why you won't do direct deposit to individuals with an FDIC bank.
i urge you to change this policy.
Palantir is behind #ICE logistics systems. both Karp and Thiel are vocal about destroying democracy.
please, don't sustain that.
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thank you for getting back to me on this. seems i misunderstood your policy.
last time i checked-in with y’all was probably back in 2023 or 2024. since then i was under the impression that you would only issue direct-deposit payments to groups/collectives/orgs (basically incorporated entities). that you only issued payments to individuals via Paypal.
so if i can now have direct deposits, that changes things a bit.
y’all should still drop Paypal & Persona.
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I don't know what @opencollective and @OpenSourceCollective are thinking with this move, but this situation needs to be reconsidered. This is going to have a massive blow back when the actual users of Open Collective realize what's going on.
@opencollective @OpenSourceCollective srsly , persona??!!??
Go diaf with your fascist data collection bullshit
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RE: https://framapiaf.org/@Betree/116218444650414138
the developer who is currently adding this Persona integration into @opencollective has replied to this thread here:
@opencollective @liaizon not forcing onto anyone _for now_
Those that enable fascism are fascists.
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@Irishmasms @Betree @opsocket @liaizon @alxndr they are forcing it onto them, the only thing their actually doing is allowing you to pick to have your info harvested by a different set of shits instead,
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RE: https://social.wake.st/@liaizon/116206925371202010
I didn't want to be break this story over here but since no one else seems to be posting about it here I am sharing a screenshot from the other side with @scan's post.
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RE: https://social.wake.st/@liaizon/116206925371202010
I didn't want to be break this story over here but since no one else seems to be posting about it here I am sharing a screenshot from the other side with @scan's post.
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@liaizon @jowek @ukrudt @tak @ruben @magnus
Another issue is the whole governance issue - their 2022 stated goal for "Exit to Community" has resulted in:
"That vision became reality in 2024, when stewardship of the platform transitioned to a new nonprofit: the Open Finance Consortium Inc. (OFiCo), a U.S. 501(c)(6) association created by and for the fiscal hosts and communities who rely on it.
OFiCo now governs the platform collectively, while its subsidiary OFi Technologies (OFiTech) operates the platform. Together, they continue the original Open Collective mission: enabling transparent, collaborative finance for communities everywhere."
What does "govern the platform collectively" mean?
The OFi Consortium site says they are "community governed", and then later, that they are formed by 5 organisations including Open Collective Europe and Open Source Collective, that "represent thousands of Collectives and guide our strategic direction".
I'm in several collectives that are fiscally hosted by Open Collective Europe, and I have never been asked to "guide their strategic direction" in any real governance sense. And looking through their (OCE) site - there is nothing I can find about hosted collectives having governance. For me "exit to community" means that the community, in this case, the collectives, have governance - but I don't see it.
Am I missing something?
This is probably next-step stuff. But it is a lingering question I have had for a while. I have a good relationship with OCE, and I believe they are well-meaning. My worry is that if there is no real community governance, then it becomes "community-washing" instead of "community-governance".
@abekonge @jowek @ukrudt @tak @ruben @magnus just to follow up on this thread: they dropped Persona! There are a lot of good points brought up here, and they didn't really address many of them. I would love it if they made a more decisive statement then then did and engaged a bit more with the community here other then defensiveness. But I am very glad to see they at least cut ties
on the side. I'm told I don't have to eat it, and that it never touched my sandwich. I leave, because you're obviously fine with playing around with nasty 
