Tesla put its breathtakingly ugly Cybercab on Austin streets Thursday: it has no steering wheel, no pedals, and no door handles.
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That's why I asked what purpose HV could possibly serve in the doors.
@wonka @beecycling @adamshostack @violetblue And also why I questioned why you assume it isn't there, when there's unspecified high voltage in parts of the car. Just because you question what purpose it could serve, doesn't mean it isn't there. I'm thinking worst case, because this is Tesla.
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Mere curiosity: For how long would it need to be pushed "over 5mph" to blow up?
@oliver_schafeld I'm sure you could recruit a bunch of engineering students who would be delighted to help you test this.
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@adamshostack @violetblue Wow, this seems unbelievably asinine. I was going to comment, "what dipshit municipality approved these vehicles as street legal", but then I saw Texas. So dumb.
@scottwilson @adamshostack @violetblue
Part of the story is that they haven't been approved. Tesla is self-certifying that everything is OK, but NHTSA is disputing that they have the right to self-certify. It's typical tech bro move fast and break things thinking. -
@jesuislibre It wasn't quite clear in the original post that you considered "stupid procedures" to cover both the absurd "safety procedures" tesla came up with and the broken "self-certification" procedure.
And yeah, self-certification needs to go die in a fire. It can only work when all parties are acting in good faith, and several of them have shown they have negative interest in doing so, instead preferring to pull stupid stunts like this before the wheels of bureaucracy can catch up.
@becomethewaifu @jesuislibre
Self-certification can work if there are real penalties for messing it up. Most obviously, once you get caught lying, you should lose the right to self-certify, but you should also have to pay to have the government test everything you've self-certified to see if you were lying about anything else. Also, a big fine on top of all that. -
Tesla put its breathtakingly ugly Cybercab on Austin streets Thursday: it has no steering wheel, no pedals, and no door handles. Tesla published an emergency guide on its website telling first responders the robotaxi can be pushed to clear a lane, but warns that pushing it over 5mph risks overheating the motor and electric shock. The car must be “caged” before interacting with it. And, “not every high voltage component is labeled.” The guide also says first responders should contact the company “via the car’s communications system or phone… If Tesla cannot be reached by phone, the manual advises first responders to use an email address to learn more about how to move the Tesla and warns, ‘This email is not monitored for emergency requests.’” [NBC News]
Nice summary from @violetblue https://www.patreon.com/violetblue/posts/cybersecurity-8-168939634
@adamshostack @violetblue That list of bullshit is what I expect from maybe a massive recall notice, not a product announcement.
"This is dangerous and irresponsible in every way we could make it so. Please don't interact with the product in any way, shape or form other than to feed it money."
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@becomethewaifu @jesuislibre
Self-certification can work if there are real penalties for messing it up. Most obviously, once you get caught lying, you should lose the right to self-certify, but you should also have to pay to have the government test everything you've self-certified to see if you were lying about anything else. Also, a big fine on top of all that.@VATVSLPR @becomethewaifu @jesuislibre No. Capitalists will always seek ways to cheat. They consider it their duty.
They can *never* be trusted to self-enforce right-behavior. See the current state of the US food supply for examples. As soon as compliance wasn't compulsory they immediately stopped inspections and other safety measures.
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@dougiec3 @adamshostack @violetblue
It sounds like the lack of door handles is only on the outside. There are handles on the inside, and they can even operate a mechanical latch without needing to find a separate override in an emergency. The doors are apparently heavy enough that Tesla warns they won't stay open without someone holding them up. I bet the Jaws of Life will work, though.@VATVSLPR @dougiec3 @adamshostack @violetblue that's awesome, if EMS spots an OD in a cab, nobody can get in to help administer narcan!
Can I get "robotaxis haunted by dead addicts" on my bingo for 2027?
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@VATVSLPR @dougiec3 @adamshostack @violetblue that's awesome, if EMS spots an OD in a cab, nobody can get in to help administer narcan!
Can I get "robotaxis haunted by dead addicts" on my bingo for 2027?
@SomeVeganCheeseIsOk @dougiec3 @adamshostack @violetblue
If EMS spots an OD, they have to call Tesla's emergency help line, hope that somebody responds, and ask if they'll pretty please open the door on cab XYZ. Or they'll just break the window and worry about the consequences later. -
Tesla put its breathtakingly ugly Cybercab on Austin streets Thursday: it has no steering wheel, no pedals, and no door handles. Tesla published an emergency guide on its website telling first responders the robotaxi can be pushed to clear a lane, but warns that pushing it over 5mph risks overheating the motor and electric shock. The car must be “caged” before interacting with it. And, “not every high voltage component is labeled.” The guide also says first responders should contact the company “via the car’s communications system or phone… If Tesla cannot be reached by phone, the manual advises first responders to use an email address to learn more about how to move the Tesla and warns, ‘This email is not monitored for emergency requests.’” [NBC News]
Nice summary from @violetblue https://www.patreon.com/violetblue/posts/cybersecurity-8-168939634
@adamshostack@infosec.exchange @violetblue said it before and ill say it again. Friends DO NOT let friends get in a tesla. Seriously dont let anyone you care about get in a tesla.
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@SomeVeganCheeseIsOk @dougiec3 @adamshostack @violetblue
If EMS spots an OD, they have to call Tesla's emergency help line, hope that somebody responds, and ask if they'll pretty please open the door on cab XYZ. Or they'll just break the window and worry about the consequences later.@VATVSLPR @dougiec3 @adamshostack @violetblue how breakable are the windows, and is the vehicle response to assault safe for the EMS personnel?
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Tesla put its breathtakingly ugly Cybercab on Austin streets Thursday: it has no steering wheel, no pedals, and no door handles. Tesla published an emergency guide on its website telling first responders the robotaxi can be pushed to clear a lane, but warns that pushing it over 5mph risks overheating the motor and electric shock. The car must be “caged” before interacting with it. And, “not every high voltage component is labeled.” The guide also says first responders should contact the company “via the car’s communications system or phone… If Tesla cannot be reached by phone, the manual advises first responders to use an email address to learn more about how to move the Tesla and warns, ‘This email is not monitored for emergency requests.’” [NBC News]
Nice summary from @violetblue https://www.patreon.com/violetblue/posts/cybersecurity-8-168939634
@adamshostack @violetblue
Any city or municipality that allows this on their streets is prima facie recieving payment/kickback/bribe of some kind because no one with kindergartener level of common sense would ok this. -
Tesla put its breathtakingly ugly Cybercab on Austin streets Thursday: it has no steering wheel, no pedals, and no door handles. Tesla published an emergency guide on its website telling first responders the robotaxi can be pushed to clear a lane, but warns that pushing it over 5mph risks overheating the motor and electric shock. The car must be “caged” before interacting with it. And, “not every high voltage component is labeled.” The guide also says first responders should contact the company “via the car’s communications system or phone… If Tesla cannot be reached by phone, the manual advises first responders to use an email address to learn more about how to move the Tesla and warns, ‘This email is not monitored for emergency requests.’” [NBC News]
Nice summary from @violetblue https://www.patreon.com/violetblue/posts/cybersecurity-8-168939634
@adamshostack A butterfly just told me that trillions outweigh all other values, except sheeple.
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@wonka @beecycling @adamshostack @violetblue And also why I questioned why you assume it isn't there, when there's unspecified high voltage in parts of the car. Just because you question what purpose it could serve, doesn't mean it isn't there. I'm thinking worst case, because this is Tesla.
Tesla is known for trying to reduce parts count, even beyond the reasonable. Would be really unexpected for them to put expensive HV leads into a door without a very good reason - and there is none.
I might even call it malicious if they still did that.
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Tesla is known for trying to reduce parts count, even beyond the reasonable. Would be really unexpected for them to put expensive HV leads into a door without a very good reason - and there is none.
I might even call it malicious if they still did that.
@wonka @beecycling @adamshostack @violetblue *Shrug* Maybe you're right, but Tesla are malicious by default, and may have reasons for wanting to trap people in cars (non-payment of fare, for instance). They've made it as hard as possible for first responders to deal with a robotaxi in any meaningful way.
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Tesla put its breathtakingly ugly Cybercab on Austin streets Thursday: it has no steering wheel, no pedals, and no door handles. Tesla published an emergency guide on its website telling first responders the robotaxi can be pushed to clear a lane, but warns that pushing it over 5mph risks overheating the motor and electric shock. The car must be “caged” before interacting with it. And, “not every high voltage component is labeled.” The guide also says first responders should contact the company “via the car’s communications system or phone… If Tesla cannot be reached by phone, the manual advises first responders to use an email address to learn more about how to move the Tesla and warns, ‘This email is not monitored for emergency requests.’” [NBC News]
Nice summary from @violetblue https://www.patreon.com/violetblue/posts/cybersecurity-8-168939634
"Tesla has not gotten clearance from safety regulators to deploy vehicles without features such as brake pedals..."
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Tesla put its breathtakingly ugly Cybercab on Austin streets Thursday: it has no steering wheel, no pedals, and no door handles. Tesla published an emergency guide on its website telling first responders the robotaxi can be pushed to clear a lane, but warns that pushing it over 5mph risks overheating the motor and electric shock. The car must be “caged” before interacting with it. And, “not every high voltage component is labeled.” The guide also says first responders should contact the company “via the car’s communications system or phone… If Tesla cannot be reached by phone, the manual advises first responders to use an email address to learn more about how to move the Tesla and warns, ‘This email is not monitored for emergency requests.’” [NBC News]
Nice summary from @violetblue https://www.patreon.com/violetblue/posts/cybersecurity-8-168939634
Warnings from manufacturers aren't a new or special thing, but the requirements are beyond anything I have ever seen.
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Mere curiosity: For how long would it need to be pushed "over 5mph" to blow up?
It won't blow up. It might catch fire.
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@adamshostack @violetblue It sounds like it could be a death trap even with EMTs on hand.
@BrideOfLinux @adamshostack @violetblue
Tesla made that a USP. Electronic door handles makes them a death trap. "bullet-proof" side windows in the Cyberstuck makes it a death trap. The "trust-Grok"-cab won't be better.
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@becomethewaifu @jesuislibre
Self-certification can work if there are real penalties for messing it up. Most obviously, once you get caught lying, you should lose the right to self-certify, but you should also have to pay to have the government test everything you've self-certified to see if you were lying about anything else. Also, a big fine on top of all that.@VATVSLPR @becomethewaifu @jesuislibre penalties based on paying money just get turned into business expense. They don't work in any for-profit industry.
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@jesuislibre did they? Did they really?
@adriano @adamshostack @violetblue Let’s use an analogy with children.
If a child (Tesla) misbehaves and their parents (the authorities) don’t make them understand that they did something wrong, and don’t tell them not to do it again, then the child might very well misbehave again later.
Is my explanation clearer now?
