honestly, Mozilla is a lost cause.

@jwz What do you mean by "buck passing"?

If Apple refuse to certify the app, what do you want them to do?

@Edent @jwz Browser vendors have many options, including rebranding these knockoff browsers "Lite" or something (e.g., "FF Lite", "Chrome Lite", etc.) to indicate how Apple is holding everyone back.

Most browser leaders (across the board) do not understand how much lack of autonomy is hurting their platform's chances. It's an omniscandal.

@Edent @jwz Mozilla is not the worst offender here; Chromies are trapped in the Android/Play team's machinations and the terms of the iOS deal (now > $20BN/yr), making Google the biggest disappointment by a country mile. But failure to use the one true asset the Mozilla Foundation has nurtured -- its independence -- for the cause of an open web where the wealthy can see it too is also indefensible. And unlike Google, you can't chalk it up to profit motive; it's just strategic incompetence.

@Edent @fasterandworse Calling it Firefox is just flat-out deception. They should have just not done it at all.

@Edent @fasterandworse And by "buck passing" I mean, "Oh, it's not our fault that the thing we call Firefox is actually Chrome. We had no choice."

Yeah. Yeah you did. Sometimes the only way to win is not to play.

@Edent @fasterandworse @jwz the recent mozilla history shows us they just prefer not to remember this quote

@Edent @fasterandworse Had they stuck to their principles, they could have still been hammering the conversation, "Why is there no Firefox on iOS? Because Apple won't let us." That's what an org with the mission of preserving the open web would do.

Instead, they released a zombie skin suit to *pretend* there's an iOS Firefox and nipped that conversation in the bud. That's what an organization only interested in juicing their market share numbers would do.

And it does Apple's PR for them.

@jwz @Edent @fasterandworse 100% agreed. It's not Firefox, and it wasn't when they did it. I never did eat a hat 11 years ago to express my total surprise that Mozilla were prepared to do this; maybe if I had they'd have listened.

@fasterandworse
Sounds like:
"We serve poison in our bar, but you are free not to drink it."

@fasterandworse @tante See https://mas.to/@zzt/116008609965567146 fwiw.

@fasterandworse At this point Mozilla only serves to shield Google from monopoly investigations.

@fasterandworse the only reason I'm still on firefox today is because it's ·not· Chrome under the hood; but at this point, I'm looking forward to their switching, to finally put me out of my misery