Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
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@noah a lot of folks have (reasonable imo) concerns around how these models are trained. I'm not sure how much of that applies to the translation models, but feelings count here.
@firefoxwebdevs @noah We also don't trust to you keep your word.
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@cstross @StarkRG @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard Yep. Their paying customer is Google, not the people using Firefox.
@bjn @StarkRG @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard Wasn't it Mark Zuckerberg of whom it was said, in the early days of Facebook, "if you're not paying for the product you ARE the product"?
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs you know if you had a button in settings that said "no AI" the majority of your userbase would click that button.
Phrased as "you know" because you DO know. You also know that the userbase tend to contain people happy to toggle settings meaning that if the userbase grows to those who don't care that's fine too.
So just get a clear toggle and watch people toggle it.
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@cstross @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard
Sure, I just wish they'd stop lying about it and pretending like it's anything anyone actually wants.@StarkRG @cstross @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard it's also the great fear because if Google DOES turn off the donations were totally stuck in their control as the browser engine would be defined by them or at best a browser engine version of Open Android and variants
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs nobody wants LLMs in our browser. do something useful instead
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Let's ask the real question:
Firefox users,
do you want any AI directly built into Firefox, or separated out into extensions?
@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @tante BOTH (2) and (3).
The Mozilla I want is one that would pre-install uBlock Origin. An effective adblocker furthers Mozilla's purported mission of "put[ting] control of the internet back in the hands of the people using it" way more than any LLM nonsense.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs "AI" is too general a term that's been coopted numerous times for marketing. Should the AI kill switch kill Pacman ghost logic in an extension? Block ELIZA? Clearly call it what people mean nowadays: an LLM/gen AI chatbot kill switch.
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A anderslund@expressional.social shared this topic
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@firefoxwebdevs Missing the option "Remove all so-called 'AI' elements from Firefox and let those who want them install them as extensions"
But at this point I've already voted that way by uninstalling Firefox from all devices.
Cosigning everything written here: https://www.waterfox.com/blog/no-ai-here-response-to-mozilla/
@NicoleJLeBoeuf @firefoxwebdevs
I believe that @librewolf has the same general attitude to AI bollocks as WaterFox.
Both seem to be good versions of the otherwise very good browser.
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@firefoxwebdevs The frame of this question is risible.
I am begging you to just make a web browser.
Make it the best browser for the open web. Make it a browser that empowers individuals. Make it a browser that defends users against threats.
Do not make a search engine. Do not make a translation engine. Do not make a webpage summariser. Do not make a front-end for an LLM. Do not make a client-side LLM.
Just. Make. A. Web. Browser.
Please.
@m0rpk @firefoxwebdevs I think that battle is already lost. Sooner or later we will be looking for alternative
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@StarkRG @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard Firefox only exists because Google subsidize them so they can point to FF as "proof" that Chrome isn't a monopoly. With the new regime in power, that's a dead issue. So Google want FF to push AI adoption now because they've figured out how to monetize it and they don't want precious eyeballs evading their slopware. If Google cut off their "search" payment to FF, Mozilla goes bust and the C-suite lose their jobs. QED.
@cstross Ufrisken ligg i at vevaugo som Firefox, Chrome, Brave og Vivaldi omfamner virknadsflod, og dette gjer at dei er bunden av ein godsleg overflod for å ilivehalda seg.
virknadsflod er til gagn for makten
Om me røyndleg har lyst på eit vevauge som ikkje opptrer i maktens namn, så er me naudd for å nøya oss med mindre.
Vevauget Lagrange som er bunden av Gemini framgangsmåten er ein lækjing i dette spørsmålet.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs this is some disingenuous baloney that really shows how little you know or care about users of your product
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@zzt I posted this poll after a meeting where we discussed the design of the kill switch, and there was uncertainty around translations. I want to make sure the community's voice is represented in these discussions.
@firefoxwebdevs @zzt The community's voice is clear, WE DON'T WANT AI IN OUR BROWSER, if you must waste efforts on the clunkers make it an extension that the interested users can download...
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs I use Firefox, because it is a decent, secure browser with a nice plugin system. I want a browser to be a browser. If I wanted it to be AI, or I wanted it to mine Bitcoins, or spy on me and show me ads, or have 1001 other useless features, I'd choose from a number of other alternatives. When you start pushing useless features like this, I am seriously considering switching the browser. This is how many browsers died, you didn't do your homework. *Nobody* prohibits you from creating useless AIs and serving them as extensions.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs Be a browser, let translation services do translation. If people have need for translation MLs they can get them on their own. -
@firefoxwebdevs @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet @zzt A poll with no "No LLMs" is not a sincere one..
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@davidgerard @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet @zzt I realise your position is immutable, but I've already used the results of this survey to push for a change to the design of the kill switch. I'm grateful to everyone who responded.
@firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet @zzt So you are pushing for only adding LLM stuff as addons then?...
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@firefoxwebdevs @mawhrin @zzt @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet @davidgerard Since you have not provided options for the opinion that people will have here, and included one for
the results can not be correct.. -
@bjn @StarkRG @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard Wasn't it Mark Zuckerberg of whom it was said, in the early days of Facebook, "if you're not paying for the product you ARE the product"?
@cstross @bjn @StarkRG @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard it's older than that. The phrase dates from "free" broadcast TV at least.
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@m I agree the folks I'm polling here do not represent the average user, but in this case I'm specifically interested in the thoughts of those who really dislike 'AI', and I think I've reached them
@firefoxwebdevs @m So you decided from the discussions last time that you didn't want opt in at all, like microsoft renaming office to "copilot app" this is nothing but doing a 3 card monty to try and fool people into validating your fractally wrong interpretation of what "opt in" is.
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@firefoxwebdevs @mawhrin @zzt @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet @davidgerard Since you have not provided options for the opinion that people will have here, and included one for
the results can not be correct..
option for people who just want to see the result without voting, rather than make a non-serious vote. It's a pretty common thing to do.