Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
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@m0rpk @firefoxwebdevs you have it completely backwards, AI should be opt in not opt out
@redfernmike @m0rpk @firefoxwebdevs But that way they can't validate their CEOs ego by telling them how many people are "using" the Clanker.
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@firefoxwebdevs @zzt @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet @davidgerard the poll was misleading and i am sure i am not the only one who voted to re-enable the translation because it wasn't fully clear what that meant. if i could revoke my vote i would.
@angelfeast @zzt @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet @davidgerard as in, you don't think there should be an option to re-enable it, or that it should be enabled by default?
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Let's ask the real question:
Firefox users,
do you want any AI directly built into Firefox, or separated out into extensions?
@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @tante It depends...
Stuff like the small model they have for language translations, it's ok to be built in, this is a major accessibility feature.Third party models that are subscription services, or running as self hosted services, but that require user to acquire and configure on the browser for it to work (off by default), can be integrated within the browser, as long as they are extensions to other non-ai browser features.
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@joepie91 I think a lot of people in the replies would consider this sneaky. It's a tricky UX problem. But yes, granular control needs to be part of the solution, along with a kill switch.
@firefoxwebdevs @joepie91 Just like making a poll that has no option for having no in the options in the first place right?... right?...
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@angelfeast @zzt @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet @davidgerard as in, you don't think there should be an option to re-enable it, or that it should be enabled by default?
@firefoxwebdevs @angelfeast @zzt @yoasif @fmasy @Rycochet
failure to address this bit:
> the poll was misleading
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@cstross @bjn @StarkRG @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard it's older than that. The phrase dates from "free" broadcast TV at least.
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@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @tante It depends...
Stuff like the small model they have for language translations, it's ok to be built in, this is a major accessibility feature.Third party models that are subscription services, or running as self hosted services, but that require user to acquire and configure on the browser for it to work (off by default), can be integrated within the browser, as long as they are extensions to other non-ai browser features.
@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @tante
Other AI features that are not extensions to non-ai features, and are not similar to the language translation feature using a local small model, should definitively be a browser extension.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs Translation models are language models.
The way I see it, there are two types of AI things in the Firefox product:
• User-helping features: translation, captioning, … Those don’t even need AI in the name, it's clear what they do, and the underlying tech only sets how good they are at their job.
• Buzzword features: AI sidebar, AI window. Those don’t have a user-facing goal, and are essentially a marketing gimmick. -
@firefoxwebdevs Translation models are language models.
The way I see it, there are two types of AI things in the Firefox product:
• User-helping features: translation, captioning, … Those don’t even need AI in the name, it's clear what they do, and the underlying tech only sets how good they are at their job.
• Buzzword features: AI sidebar, AI window. Those don’t have a user-facing goal, and are essentially a marketing gimmick.@espadrine I personally agree with you, but most respondents to the poll do not. It seems like, if the AI switch did not disable translations, folks would not have trust in the setting.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs "Hey, we pooped in your cake. Do you want us to add inclusive topping : yes, yes but just a bit, no no topping on my poopoo cake, emoji idunnolol"
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@firefoxwebdevs @xela If you didn't think it was great you would do the sensible thing and develop them as addons rather than including them into the executable to pump up the number of people seen using it...
@sotolf may I ask to not further mention me in such posts, as I get notified every time. And I don't think, the tone is appropriate.
There was a survey, we got some interesting details about the implementation, we can draw our conclusions. At least, that's what I did.
No need to personally attack some dev folks in the Fediverse. -
@firefoxwebdevs nobody wants LLMs in our browser. do something useful instead
@hex @firefoxwebdevs While I don't want LLM on my browser, some people do... Also, the translations, which is what they are talking about, is not an LLM (as it's pointed on the original toot).
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs Just keep in mind to keep all AI features off by default no matter what.
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@ohyran Absolutely looking forward to the feature landing so folks can do just that!
@firefoxwebdevs @ohyran keep it off by default as well.
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@sotolf may I ask to not further mention me in such posts, as I get notified every time. And I don't think, the tone is appropriate.
There was a survey, we got some interesting details about the implementation, we can draw our conclusions. At least, that's what I did.
No need to personally attack some dev folks in the Fediverse.@xela You're free to block or mute my account, I will try to delete your mentions if I see them in the future, it's just not easy to keep remembering when I will answer in this post in a couple of hours.
There is nothing wrong in the tone of that post though. That was just constructive criticism, it's not a personal attack when I'm answering to a non-personalised PR account.. That is per definition not personal.
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@firefoxwebdevs We don't want a "kill switch" aka Opt-Out, we want a "live switch" aka Opt-In!
I think it should be very clear by now that most people don't want slop by default.
What is so complicated to understand that?Opt-Out == bad
Opt-In == okay
slop as add-on == best option@CyberPunker @firefoxwebdevs kill switch doesn't mean opt-out, it means have a single button to disable it.
The thing is that an user might have switched on a couple of AI features, and might have changed its mind, and wanted to disable it all permanently or temporarily, and having a single button to do that is very useful.
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@firefoxwebdevs @noah We also don't trust to you keep your word.
@mu @firefoxwebdevs @noah speak for yourself.
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@duke_of_germany @firefoxwebdevs @davidgerard @tante
hoping @zenbrowser, based on FF, will stay away from this
@dgoosens In the past, @zenbrowser has actively disabled AI features from FF, so I think it’s looking good.
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@espadrine I personally agree with you, but most respondents to the poll do not. It seems like, if the AI switch did not disable translations, folks would not have trust in the setting.
@firefoxwebdevs Anecdotically, I clicked "Yes" because my first instinct was to focus on semantics, but what I really want as a user is to not crowd menus with entries which are not user-helping.
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@firefoxwebdevs How about "don't put pointless AI bullshit into your browser in the first place so you don't have to ask asinine loaded questions like this to try to con people into not turning all that shit off.
@digitalraven @firefoxwebdevs how come a local translation is bs?
