Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs The frame of this question is risible.
I am begging you to just make a web browser.
Make it the best browser for the open web. Make it a browser that empowers individuals. Make it a browser that defends users against threats.
Do not make a search engine. Do not make a translation engine. Do not make a webpage summariser. Do not make a front-end for an LLM. Do not make a client-side LLM.
Just. Make. A. Web. Browser.
Please.
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@firefoxwebdevs @zzt
" I want to make sure the community's voice is represented in these discussions."Then KILL ALL The stupid non-browser functions.
Remove ALL AI code.
Make Firefox work.
Fix printing,Make it follow system GUI / theme.
Stop copying Chrome or Wiindows.
@raymaccarthy @firefoxwebdevs @zzt
+1, and fix the excessive idle CPU consumption ! -
Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
Please just create a very good browser and drop all of the AI bollocks.
It's not helping. No-one wants it. Improve the rendering engine and fix bugs.
Please!
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@firefoxwebdevs The frame of this question is risible.
I am begging you to just make a web browser.
Make it the best browser for the open web. Make it a browser that empowers individuals. Make it a browser that defends users against threats.
Do not make a search engine. Do not make a translation engine. Do not make a webpage summariser. Do not make a front-end for an LLM. Do not make a client-side LLM.
Just. Make. A. Web. Browser.
Please.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs Said translation should be an opt-in extension you can install if you want it. Not a core component at all.
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@zzt I posted this poll after a meeting where we discussed the design of the kill switch, and there was uncertainty around translations. I want to make sure the community's voice is represented in these discussions.
@firefoxwebdevs @zzt You ignored the firefox userbase's voice when it came to adding AI in the first place, don't pretend you're listening now when you're really just trying to get the users to come up with justifications for what you have already decided to do. Firefox users have repeatedly said we do not want AI features imstalled by default, you chose not to listen and now you're trying to find ways you can feel less bad about that by pretending you gave people options when it comes to AI usage, rather than taking one away.
If you cared about what 'the community' wants, you would have asked people when the AI notion was first pitched and taken no for an answer, but yet again, AI enthusiasts have acted without consent.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs dunno, deleted as soon as you added Artificial Intelligence and never came back.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs as a user, I like and use translation. Having one app render and translate content makes sense to me.
I like how you do it (incl on-device, on-demand and privacy-preserving, and open data (assuming it means not copyrighted?)).
Because of both, it is clearly different from other “AI” to me, even if it technically would use language models that are large, and this poll makes sense to me.
It's tricky, I voted, but wasn't super sure. I think granular controls would be great.
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@raymaccarthy sounds like what you want is curl
@saphkey @raymaccarthy Printing with curl for Dummies. When?
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@firefoxwebdevs @zzt This doesn't feel honest. Maybe from you personally, sure. But not from Mozilla or the Firefox team.
That is like, I decide the car you get. The brand, the model, the color. But hey, don't worry, your voice is important too, so you are allowed to decide what bumper-sticker I will put on your car.
Seriously, this fake inclusion is kinda insulting.
Again, nothing personal against you. But where else should I share my opinion, consider Mozilla even ignores its own feedback platform
@pixel @firefoxwebdevs @zzt I hope our friend resists the urge to put a pretty face on all of our blunt feedback before the next meeting where the objective will be further redefining what level of damage control will magically turn Mozilla's bad choices into good ones.
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs I appreciate that you're asking us Firefox users for our opinion on a feature. Keep doing this please.
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@pixel @firefoxwebdevs @zzt I hope our friend resists the urge to put a pretty face on all of our blunt feedback before the next meeting where the objective will be further redefining what level of damage control will magically turn Mozilla's bad choices into good ones.
@liquor_american @pixel @firefoxwebdevs I suspect the only feedback that’ll get relayed is the feedback from the posters who still kneejerk defend Mozilla as an institution. the rest of us are just too rude to be counted as part of the community (because we use and care deeply about Firefox and hate the entirely avoidable path it’s gone down)
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I think the challenge with everything going on here is one of clarity.
@sil, you are asking them about disclosure of models and sourcing. But that is far from the only AI that is in the system.
The tool that does grammar checking and language identification does not leverage an LLM, and while there may be some type of model underneath, the context is very different. Tools that detect spam pages or faulty JavaScript that locks the pages, that's another type of AI hard at work.
Is the browser allowed to support speech to text?
@jmax You're calling out that Firefox may not be able to do this, but I think that mischaracterizes the scope of what's happening here.
The browser has several types of non-deterministic, probabilistic tools in it that provide useful services. Now there's a backlash against one very specific version of those non-deterministic, probabilistic tools. But the backlash is vociferous, often unsolvable, and incredibly broad.
It's hard to engage with non-specific anger.
@gatesvp @firefoxwebdevs @jmax of course there's much "AI" stuff in firefox. I'm assuming that it would all be listed, and all disableable. The CEO promised "a clear way to turn AI features off... A real kill switch" -- if all that other stuff qualifies as "AI", then that means it'll be turn-off-able, no?
I agree that it's hard to engage with non-specific anger; I think the way to add clarity to that conversation is to be specific, about which AI parts are in Moz and where they came from. -
Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs come on man.
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@firefoxwebdevs I mean realistically, we have about:config at home, and y'all are already not respecting that
why the future "KILL SWITCH" carrot? it just comes across like a Musk promise
@firefoxwebdevs going through all the other replies and your lack of response to any of them..
“why are there flaming bags of poop on my porch, and why do they all have different postmarks”
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Firefox uses on-device downloaded-on-demand ML models for privacy-preserving translation.
They're not LLMs. They're trained on open data.
Should translation be disabled if the AI 'kill switch' is active?
@firefoxwebdevs I love the on-device translations and don't really want the other stuff.
Yes the kill switch should ideally be a settings page with many toggles for all ML-like features and an obvious master enable/disable-all toggle at the top of the page. -
@gatesvp @firefoxwebdevs @jmax of course there's much "AI" stuff in firefox. I'm assuming that it would all be listed, and all disableable. The CEO promised "a clear way to turn AI features off... A real kill switch" -- if all that other stuff qualifies as "AI", then that means it'll be turn-off-able, no?
I agree that it's hard to engage with non-specific anger; I think the way to add clarity to that conversation is to be specific, about which AI parts are in Moz and where they came from.@gatesvp @firefoxwebdevs @jmax this sounds like it could be a horribly onerous task for the Moz dev teams, of course. And I think that a Mozilla viewed as on the side of the angels could get away with saying, hey this translation/JS loop detection stuff is "AI" but that's not really what you want to turn off so it's not on the list, and be trusted. But Moz is increasingly not viewed by some of its user community as deserving that benefit of the doubt.
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@firefoxwebdevs jonah, I hate to break it to you and the LLM shaped like a product manager that’s setting the agenda for your meetings, but the only time I hear about Firefox translations in any context is when Mozilla PMs try to hold it up as an example of an ethical, low-resource, useful AI feature so they can convince to be a fan of the worthless LLM shit they’re actually there to push
the reason why I don’t hear about translations otherwise is simple: it’s shit
@zzt @firefoxwebdevs there are plenty of users who want to translate stuff in browsers, I am one. To me it seems super reasonable for a product rendering content to also offer translation of it.
fyi you're coming across as very cynical (and I say that as someone who's pretty cynical towards AI hype and the current tech industry myself… I *get* it…)
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@liquor_american @pixel @firefoxwebdevs I suspect the only feedback that’ll get relayed is the feedback from the posters who still kneejerk defend Mozilla as an institution. the rest of us are just too rude to be counted as part of the community (because we use and care deeply about Firefox and hate the entirely avoidable path it’s gone down)
@zzt @pixel @firefoxwebdevs "Nobody likes our product any longer, but at least we never had to entertain any *shudder* critical feedback."
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@zzt @firefoxwebdevs there are plenty of users who want to translate stuff in browsers, I am one. To me it seems super reasonable for a product rendering content to also offer translation of it.
fyi you're coming across as very cynical (and I say that as someone who's pretty cynical towards AI hype and the current tech industry myself… I *get* it…)
@hdv @firefoxwebdevs thanks for telling me about some software you use and then insulting me!
