I missed reading Starlink's latest conjunction report when it came out a bit over a month ago.
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@sundogplanets say it does happen with a couple of these star link satellites? It'll be a cascading event, but how long will it last for? Months? Years? Decades?
Depends on how high the debris are orbiting. This page suggests that 600km high would take decades, past 800km would take centuries, and anything past 1000km is effectively up there for good. Starlink satellites orbit at about 550km. space.com said something about SpaceX having to lower them down to 480km. -
Oh gosh I just did the math on the maneuver rate, which I couldn't bring myself to do earlier. More than 207,000 collision avoidance maneuvers in 6 months.
That means that somewhere in the Starlink megaconstellation, a satellite is performing a collision avoidance maneuver EVERY 1.25 MINUTES (EVERY 75 SECONDS)
AAAHHHH I'M SURE THAT'S FINE.
And now I find myself reading about asteroid collisional cascades. For no particular reason...
@sundogplanets Do you know https://outerspaceinstitute.ca/crashclock/ ?
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@sundogplanets Do you know https://outerspaceinstitute.ca/crashclock/ ?
@jesterchen Yes, I helped make that.
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@LeDiva @sundogplanets Kessler syndrome is a fair thing to worry about at higher orbits but at the low orbit that Starlink satellites live at, it would only be an issue for 1 to 5 years. Not that it wouldn't be a *massive* impact to be unable to get into space for 1 to 5 years... but it would not be an end to spacetravel for the rest of human history kind of event.
@badtux That still sounds pretty bad though?
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@jesterchen Yes, I helped make that.
@sundogplanets Oops.
️Thanks for that.
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@badtux That still sounds pretty bad though?
@LeDiva Pretty bad. But not an end to spacetravel for the rest of human history kind of bad.
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@fiigvam @swordgeek We're beyond the runaway limit. If there's a collision in altitudes beyond the runaway limit, that means that debris pieces will continue causing more collisions. But the timescale for those secondary collisions could be years. But the rate will continue to increase...
Here's a recent paper by Hugh Lewis and Donald Kessler (yes, that Kessler) that's super dense but talks about it. Figure 16. https://conference.sdo.esoc.esa.int/proceedings/sdc9/paper/305/SDC9-paper305.pdf
@sundogplanets @swordgeek oh interesting! So regardless of the in orbit maneuvers that starlink is actively performing, there is at least some patch of orbit that is in slow but increasing cascade Kessler syndrome?
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I missed reading Starlink's latest conjunction report when it came out a bit over a month ago. I just skimmed through it and I think I need to go lay down for a while. It's terrifying how close we are to major collisions in orbit all the time... (I especially love the note about how space-track.org being offline briefly caused them to miss a potential collision... SO FRAGILE AAUGH)
Article summarizing the report here: https://ca.pcmag.com/networking/16653/260-starlink-satellites-burn-up-in-earths-atmosphere-as-more-head-for-fiery-ends
Full report here: https://www.scribd.com/document/1057502572/SpaceX-Gen1-Gen2-Semi-Annual-Report-7-1-26
@sundogplanets It's because of the potential for collision that SpaceX programmed their satellites to deorbit and burn up at the end of their useful lives rather than move into the usual 'parking' orbit.
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@sundogplanets It's because of the potential for collision that SpaceX programmed their satellites to deorbit and burn up at the end of their useful lives rather than move into the usual 'parking' orbit.
@swb72 There is no parking orbit for LEO, just for GEO
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@sundogplanets @swordgeek oh interesting! So regardless of the in orbit maneuvers that starlink is actively performing, there is at least some patch of orbit that is in slow but increasing cascade Kessler syndrome?
@fiigvam @swordgeek Yes. Scary.
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@fiigvam @swordgeek Yes. Scary.
@sundogplanets @swordgeek phew. Well then. Thanks for enlightening us and giving answers!
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Correct me if I'm wrong but, collision avoidance manoeuvres cost propellant. A satellite can only carry a small amount of propellant. More manoeuvres cost more propellant. Nobody is refuelling satellites in orbit.
I'm sure it will be fine.
@davidtheeviloverlord @sundogplanets I was thinking the same thing. Increased maneuvers = more fuel = shorter lifespans = more replacement satellites needed and so on.
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I missed reading Starlink's latest conjunction report when it came out a bit over a month ago. I just skimmed through it and I think I need to go lay down for a while. It's terrifying how close we are to major collisions in orbit all the time... (I especially love the note about how space-track.org being offline briefly caused them to miss a potential collision... SO FRAGILE AAUGH)
Article summarizing the report here: https://ca.pcmag.com/networking/16653/260-starlink-satellites-burn-up-in-earths-atmosphere-as-more-head-for-fiery-ends
Full report here: https://www.scribd.com/document/1057502572/SpaceX-Gen1-Gen2-Semi-Annual-Report-7-1-26
Who would’ve thought a bunch of Rich assholes could kill the sky.
Space will be the final frontier.. When we can get back to launching anything into orbit again
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I missed reading Starlink's latest conjunction report when it came out a bit over a month ago. I just skimmed through it and I think I need to go lay down for a while. It's terrifying how close we are to major collisions in orbit all the time... (I especially love the note about how space-track.org being offline briefly caused them to miss a potential collision... SO FRAGILE AAUGH)
Article summarizing the report here: https://ca.pcmag.com/networking/16653/260-starlink-satellites-burn-up-in-earths-atmosphere-as-more-head-for-fiery-ends
Full report here: https://www.scribd.com/document/1057502572/SpaceX-Gen1-Gen2-Semi-Annual-Report-7-1-26
Even Elon Musk's own satellites want to kill themselves rather than work for him.
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Oh gosh I just did the math on the maneuver rate, which I couldn't bring myself to do earlier. More than 207,000 collision avoidance maneuvers in 6 months.
That means that somewhere in the Starlink megaconstellation, a satellite is performing a collision avoidance maneuver EVERY 1.25 MINUTES (EVERY 75 SECONDS)
AAAHHHH I'M SURE THAT'S FINE.
And now I find myself reading about asteroid collisional cascades. For no particular reason...
@sundogplanets @wendynather All of the sudden all those asteroid near misses start getting a lot more interesting. Don’t have to hit the Earth, just swoosh by in LEO leaving a wake of destruction
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I mean, to be fair, they have done it perfectly so far. No Starlink collisions.
But there is a shitload of untracked, lethal debris orbiting around up there. And they are completely dependent on so many systems (like space-track.org, apparently).
And our future use of orbit is completely dependent on Starlink operating perfectly, every minute of every day, forever.
@sundogplanets … by a company who has recently been merged with a company whose business model is basically selling vibe engineering/vibe everythinging tools to the industry.
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@BrKloeckner Thank you.
@sundogplanets Thank you for your work! Can't be said often enough.
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I missed reading Starlink's latest conjunction report when it came out a bit over a month ago. I just skimmed through it and I think I need to go lay down for a while. It's terrifying how close we are to major collisions in orbit all the time... (I especially love the note about how space-track.org being offline briefly caused them to miss a potential collision... SO FRAGILE AAUGH)
Article summarizing the report here: https://ca.pcmag.com/networking/16653/260-starlink-satellites-burn-up-in-earths-atmosphere-as-more-head-for-fiery-ends
Full report here: https://www.scribd.com/document/1057502572/SpaceX-Gen1-Gen2-Semi-Annual-Report-7-1-26
@sundogplanets Thanks for keeping us informed. We've trashed the planet and now we're trashing space. We're literally shitting in our own nest.
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@sundogplanets I feel like there's gonna be a day where they just abandon it all for whatever asinine reason and it rains space junk all over, all at once, with no accountability
@action_jay @sundogplanets
Whole countries will bankrupt themselves building underground shelters for their people to hide from the hailstorm of scorching debris.
And the billionaires will chuckle in their fortified bunkers in New Zeeland. -
Oh gosh I just did the math on the maneuver rate, which I couldn't bring myself to do earlier. More than 207,000 collision avoidance maneuvers in 6 months.
That means that somewhere in the Starlink megaconstellation, a satellite is performing a collision avoidance maneuver EVERY 1.25 MINUTES (EVERY 75 SECONDS)
AAAHHHH I'M SURE THAT'S FINE.
And now I find myself reading about asteroid collisional cascades. For no particular reason...
@sundogplanets
When will they start running out of fuel for manoeuvres? -
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