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@orange_lux @dibi58 @karl today I don't have the capacity for whataboutism
you're missing the engineering point
there is already enough misinformation out there
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@sherbang @Hex @orange_lux @saxnot @dibi58 I work at a cloud provider and can confirm that running ai isn't as cheap as it sounds.
My take is that most models are so general purpose that they're very inefficient (versatile, yes, but inefficient). Think "sorting an array through a bogo sort" inefficient. LLMs trained for a specific purpose may be more cost-effective to run long term, but that's not the norm.
@karl @sherbang @orange_lux @saxnot @dibi58 I know how much it takes to run at least basic models because I'm running local models for experiments. I won't use hosted models because I'm not giving them money or training data. But yeah, capitalists are trying to sell something that doesn't exist and that they don't understand.
I would be entirely unsurprised to find out that even inference on corporate models can't cover costs. To sell "AI" it has to be a thing that just works for everything all the time. It must take no thought. That's incredibly wasteful.
It needs to stop being subsidized, just like cars.
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@karl En Politico zal ons even vertellen wat wij moeten doen of laten? And Politico is the instance telling us what to do or not?
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Reference, for whoever might care…
https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-choose-ai-climate-goals-data-center-chief-warns/
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@karl Difícil elección. O morir de calor en pos del beneficio de los ricos o no hacerlo. Dadme por favor 9ms para pensármelo...
@cucufaiter @karl 9 minutes? Yep same with me, spent all my tokens, query still running.
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@cucufaiter @karl 9 minutes? Yep same with me, spent all my tokens, query still running.
@a_goodall_spaceship @karl miliseconds xD
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@karl @sherbang @orange_lux @saxnot @dibi58 I know how much it takes to run at least basic models because I'm running local models for experiments. I won't use hosted models because I'm not giving them money or training data. But yeah, capitalists are trying to sell something that doesn't exist and that they don't understand.
I would be entirely unsurprised to find out that even inference on corporate models can't cover costs. To sell "AI" it has to be a thing that just works for everything all the time. It must take no thought. That's incredibly wasteful.
It needs to stop being subsidized, just like cars.
@Hex @karl @sherbang @orange_lux @dibi58 100 % agreed
the AI hype is absolute madness
can't wait for the bubble to burst -
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@karl Clear choice there, except for absolute idiots who think they can exist without the environment their species is adapted to.
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europe needs to implement climate goals and develop a high quality ai that does not need nor use amerikkkan it garbage fraud ...
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@karl Computer haben andere Bedürfnisse als Menschen. Menschen sind nicht mehr notwendig, wenn es KI gibt.
@rumpelheinz @karl Ein gutes Argument dafür, warum wir keine KI brauchen.
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@karl Politico is Springer Press
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@orange_lux@eldritch.cafe @dibi58@this.mouse.rocks @karl@infosec.exchange Technically, given the kind of compute for energy ratios that human brains (and other dynamic nanosystems) manage to accomplish, it should be quite possible to accomplish with synthetic biology.
We just need to get much better at it and forget ever accomplishing it on static compute (stop even trying, the efficiency is too bad).
The efficiency of digital static compute is laughably bad at the best of times.
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@orange_lux@eldritch.cafe @dibi58@this.mouse.rocks @karl@infosec.exchange Technically, given the kind of compute for energy ratios that human brains (and other dynamic nanosystems) manage to accomplish, it should be quite possible to accomplish with synthetic biology.
We just need to get much better at it and forget ever accomplishing it on static compute (stop even trying, the efficiency is too bad).
The efficiency of digital static compute is laughably bad at the best of times.
@lispi314 @orange_lux @karl @dibi58
> synthetic biology.
we don't really need this. There are so many bacteria and neural cells available, with billions of years of evolution...
--
Uriel Fanelli
Using Aktor: https://git.keinpfusch.net/loweel/Aktor-2
XMPP: uriel@keinpfusch.net
old blog: https://blog.keinpfusch.net
new blog: https://keinpfusch.net -
@lispi314 @orange_lux @karl @dibi58
> synthetic biology.
we don't really need this. There are so many bacteria and neural cells available, with billions of years of evolution...
--
Uriel Fanelli
Using Aktor: https://git.keinpfusch.net/loweel/Aktor-2
XMPP: uriel@keinpfusch.net
old blog: https://blog.keinpfusch.net
new blog: https://keinpfusch.net@ALewpqX9B5hLrwnPl2.uriel@bbs.keinpfusch.net @orange_lux @karl @dibi58 That's a question of degrees at that point.
Even if you use building blocks that already exist, isn't it synthetic?
Similar to a hammer, all the components remain natural (since they clearly exist to start with), but intelligent intervention was involved in its making. That at least is the distinction I draw.
There's no particular reason to recreate it entirely from scratch unless you very specifically want to make it deliberately incompatible with the rest of the biosphere. -
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@karl in that case. No data centers.
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@karl They need to really think about that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPQNPJ0CEPo
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