Most city dwellers don't know how much of the night sky has already been stolen by billionaires, because poorly planned, wasteful city lights have already drowned out the stars for them.
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RE: https://social.treehouse.systems/@ariadne/117063592703392163
Most city dwellers don't know how much of the night sky has already been stolen by billionaires, because poorly planned, wasteful city lights have already drowned out the stars for them.
@sundogplanets I remember about 10-15 years ago when NASA meetings or dinners were paused to watch the ISS passing over. It was visible in small cities
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RE: https://social.treehouse.systems/@ariadne/117063592703392163
Most city dwellers don't know how much of the night sky has already been stolen by billionaires, because poorly planned, wasteful city lights have already drowned out the stars for them.
@sundogplanets The local astronomy club I'm part of did a Perseids viewing for the public last night. We got about 200 people out and one thing that really struck those new to this was just how bright the nearby urban developments were. They were kind of depressed about it after showing them all the cool stuff to look at.
We'd show them M13, M6 and others in Sagittarius because the above and south view was mostly dark. But showing them M31 was tough because of all the light in the north and east. Multiple people gave that look of disappointment when you explained to them it was city glow making this difficult.
Also, I did not hear much enthusiasm for satellites. Because they were not meteors.
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RE: https://social.treehouse.systems/@ariadne/117063592703392163
Most city dwellers don't know how much of the night sky has already been stolen by billionaires, because poorly planned, wasteful city lights have already drowned out the stars for them.
@sundogplanets @ariadne Living in London now I can't see much of anything. When I was younger I spent a lot of time north of Toronto. I remember the first time I really saw and appreciated the Milky Way, understanding instantly why it was called that.
I remember one evening 30, 35 years ago standing on the side of a lake with an astronomer describing everything. Pointing out the satellites because they were so rare and fleeting.
It is truly amazing when you really get to the see night sky.
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RE: https://social.treehouse.systems/@ariadne/117063592703392163
Most city dwellers don't know how much of the night sky has already been stolen by billionaires, because poorly planned, wasteful city lights have already drowned out the stars for them.
@sundogplanets in Winnipeg, it usually just takes me a few minutes to spot a satellite. I didn’t know they were mostly starlink until I tried to see what they were. The starlink filter on heavens above is huge.
I have mixed feelings about sodium lights replaced by LED. Down facing better, but brighter & harder to filter. Purple was fun. They should be red (hah) so I can view the sky better, not on, or on-demand (motion censors, pressure sensors, magnetic sensors, cameras etc.).
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@sundogplanets so sad when I saw my youngest son getting excited about pursuing using telescopes as a hobby. He spent a bundle on 2 types for use in the backyard. In 2014. In Phoenix, AZ.
Aargh. Since then the urban light pollution has gotten so much more pervasive. And then came the satellites. So so many satellites. Those telescopes have been packed up for almost ten years now.
@cobalt123 @sundogplanets it is. Binoculars are a great way to keep active watching the night sky. I know many that keep a pair in their car (along with a star chart/book).
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RE: https://social.treehouse.systems/@ariadne/117063592703392163
Most city dwellers don't know how much of the night sky has already been stolen by billionaires, because poorly planned, wasteful city lights have already drowned out the stars for them.
@sundogplanets i've taken cpl cross-country (US) train trips, and was amazed to see total darkness. city-born, suburb raised, suburb living now, never see that. a single driveway light stood out as a lost soul in a very dark wherever we were. not much else to look at on a train at night. the sky, the sky..
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RE: https://social.treehouse.systems/@ariadne/117063592703392163
Most city dwellers don't know how much of the night sky has already been stolen by billionaires, because poorly planned, wasteful city lights have already drowned out the stars for them.
@sundogplanets I still remember being STUNNED by all the stars during the 1977 blackout
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@sundogplanets City lights are (in some places at least) becoming better planned and less wasteful (I've done a few years in the smart street lighting business).
As systems are upgraded
* LED lighting uses less power than previous technologies
* switch on/off times can be calculated/measured more accurately, so lights are on for less time (they don't have to be switched on a few minutes early in order to be sure of meeting the regulatory spec)
* lights can be switched off in the middle of the night (which annoys punters) or dimmed down (which punters don't even notice, so is sometimes more politically acceptable)
* I'm assuming that better housings are also directing more of the light downwards rather than upwards.[There are also places which do weird stuff like dim the lights down when there's nobody around and then brighten them when cars are detected. This seems arse about tit to me - cars have got perfectly good headlights, it's pedestrians and cyclists who need help from the street lights.]
I realised at one point that I had all the passwords necessary to turn the lights in a particular city on and off so as to look like a smiley (or even a rude slogan) from overhead. But I never did, even when I was working out my notice.
Does anyone with the passwords feel like having Clacton say VOTE BINFACE as seen from a couple of thousand feet? It'd cost you your job, but plenty of people would cheer you on.
Oh, and one strange factoid as an aside: it seems that half the "street lights" in the USA are not lighting streets at all - they're lighting car parks.
In Suffolk we've got the new LED streetlights pretty much everywhere and they get switched off after about 23:30.
There is slightly less light pollution, but what now happens is there's an "arms race" for security lighting on private dwelling houses - some folk leave their "low level" LED lights (not all of which are properly angled) on all night and others have IR triggered lights which randomly go on and off which can be jarring (and when driving at night sometimes make you think there are vehicles behind you which aren't there)
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In Suffolk we've got the new LED streetlights pretty much everywhere and they get switched off after about 23:30.
There is slightly less light pollution, but what now happens is there's an "arms race" for security lighting on private dwelling houses - some folk leave their "low level" LED lights (not all of which are properly angled) on all night and others have IR triggered lights which randomly go on and off which can be jarring (and when driving at night sometimes make you think there are vehicles behind you which aren't there)
@vfrmedia @sundogplanets Interesting. That "arms race" was never mentioned whilst I was in the business.
I know about IR triggering. I considered connecting an IR triggered light to the burglar alarm until I discovered that it was continually being set off by cats and hedgehogs.
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@vfrmedia @sundogplanets Interesting. That "arms race" was never mentioned whilst I was in the business.
I know about IR triggering. I considered connecting an IR triggered light to the burglar alarm until I discovered that it was continually being set off by cats and hedgehogs.
@TimWardCam @sundogplanets I do live in a suburb of Ipswich which once had a bad reputation for petty crime but got cleaned up to a great extent since about 2007/8 to the point house prices rose, its now popular with middle class familes and seniors, they still have a (maybe understandable) fear of crime and are determined to protect their property (every other house also has some kind of CCTV doorbell and often cameras guarding vehicles on the driveway if they have one)
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@TimWardCam @sundogplanets I do live in a suburb of Ipswich which once had a bad reputation for petty crime but got cleaned up to a great extent since about 2007/8 to the point house prices rose, its now popular with middle class familes and seniors, they still have a (maybe understandable) fear of crime and are determined to protect their property (every other house also has some kind of CCTV doorbell and often cameras guarding vehicles on the driveway if they have one)
@vfrmedia @sundogplanets Ah, Ipswich.
I recall an incident when the police called the council and said "hey, we think something might be going to happen in the city centre on Saturday night, can you leave those lights on all night please?"
On this occasion there was a couple of days' notice, but I think the council had to have someone on call 24/7 to switch the lights on at the request of the police if there was an emergency.
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RE: https://social.treehouse.systems/@ariadne/117063592703392163
Most city dwellers don't know how much of the night sky has already been stolen by billionaires, because poorly planned, wasteful city lights have already drowned out the stars for them.
@sundogplanets they know, it’s all of it. That’s what they have lost. They don’t have the view or the time to appreciate it. For them a star, a planet, or a high flying plane are all the same thing. Until satellites start landing in cities they aren’t personally invested.
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RE: https://social.treehouse.systems/@ariadne/117063592703392163
Most city dwellers don't know how much of the night sky has already been stolen by billionaires, because poorly planned, wasteful city lights have already drowned out the stars for them.
@sundogplanets I live close to an airport, so I don't usually see a starry night sky. But I had a beautiful experience where I was in the mountains over night about 15 years ago where I saw a clear sky and it was just magical. A similar moment just 2 years ago was sobering. Most of what I saw were blinking satellites
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RE: https://social.treehouse.systems/@ariadne/117063592703392163
Most city dwellers don't know how much of the night sky has already been stolen by billionaires, because poorly planned, wasteful city lights have already drowned out the stars for them.
@sundogplanets Most city dwellers don't realize they waste their energy complaining online instead of complaining to the city management who you are entitled to hold accountable for questionable decisions
Demand change obnoxiously, the only thing city gov hates more than working is being annoyed, but life is easy for the city who can shut off the computer to escape the consequences of their sh*tty management
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RE: https://social.treehouse.systems/@ariadne/117063592703392163
Most city dwellers don't know how much of the night sky has already been stolen by billionaires, because poorly planned, wasteful city lights have already drowned out the stars for them.
@sundogplanets Your only escape : go to Mars
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RE: https://social.treehouse.systems/@ariadne/117063592703392163
Most city dwellers don't know how much of the night sky has already been stolen by billionaires, because poorly planned, wasteful city lights have already drowned out the stars for them.
@sundogplanets Makes sense. Unfortunately it will only get worse it seems too. With unnaturally bright LEDs and EVEN more satellites like that company trying to put mirrors in space. Billionaires really ONLY care about that bit of more money and power. It's sad to think about.
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RE: https://social.treehouse.systems/@ariadne/117063592703392163
Most city dwellers don't know how much of the night sky has already been stolen by billionaires, because poorly planned, wasteful city lights have already drowned out the stars for them.
@sundogplanets Yes exactly. I also came across this article (on mastodon) which I think more people should read about “urban lighting” & how we’re not doing it correctly. I found it interesting (and not surprising to me) that there is significant evidence that “crime” doesn’t really “go down” because of “lighting up the night”.
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@sundogplanets Yes exactly. I also came across this article (on mastodon) which I think more people should read about “urban lighting” & how we’re not doing it correctly. I found it interesting (and not surprising to me) that there is significant evidence that “crime” doesn’t really “go down” because of “lighting up the night”.
@sundogplanets For a girl who grew up in the dark (and has excellent cat vision
) I always thought that “night lights” were annoying & made vision harder. Apparently I’m not wrong. Also, I always thought it was quite an elaborate excuse to “have large lights on all night” because “crime is less” -
RE: https://social.treehouse.systems/@ariadne/117063592703392163
Most city dwellers don't know how much of the night sky has already been stolen by billionaires, because poorly planned, wasteful city lights have already drowned out the stars for them.
We're always trying to get more dark sky in our city but the people who are scared of everything want even more lights! It's horrible for birds migrating across the lake and gives my spouse midrange, ugh
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RE: https://social.treehouse.systems/@ariadne/117063592703392163
Most city dwellers don't know how much of the night sky has already been stolen by billionaires, because poorly planned, wasteful city lights have already drowned out the stars for them.
Cities have been that way for a long time. I remember going with Scouts (half a century ago) and being absolutely awe struck at how many stars were in the night sky because I lived in the city.
