tell me you’re a coward without telling me
-
cited as reason to allow LLM contributions experimentally:
Instead of using ethical concerns as a basis for policy, we should justify policy on the basis of how something is impacting our ability as a project to deliver a really great programming language.
if the orphan grinder lets us make a better programming language then FIRE THOSE BABIES UP
@Athena That reasoning from the Rust devs... I'm sorry but how is it different from eugenics? Proponents of eugenics also had the betterment of the species as a stated goal. Both of them are putting aside ethical concerns in the name of apparent progress.
Also, any statement that starts out with "Instead of using ethical concerns as a basis for policy" should have everything following discarded because it doesn't say anything important. You started out with stating you don't give a shit about ethics so quite frankly anything else you're saying is null and void -
cited as reason to allow LLM contributions experimentally:
Instead of using ethical concerns as a basis for policy, we should justify policy on the basis of how something is impacting our ability as a project to deliver a really great programming language.
if the orphan grinder lets us make a better programming language then FIRE THOSE BABIES UP
@Athena
Why am I suddenly thinking of Joseph Mengeles contributions to health care? -
@Athena wow youre good at this. arguing with centrofascists on their own turf in good faith, i mean. hard not to snap immediately when faced with such bullshit
@hsza thank you! I credit spending my entire teenage years disassociating into internet arguments (and programming, but that’s less relevant here)
-
tell me you’re a coward without telling me
No comment on this PR may mention the following topics:
Long-term social or economic impact of LLMs
The environmental impact of LLMs
Anything to do with the copyright status of LLM output
Moral judgements about people who use LLMs
We have asked the moderation team to help us enforce these rules.@Athena wow what a fucking disaster
and the "we could not reach consensus so let's just, ban debate"
-
cited as reason to allow LLM contributions experimentally:
Instead of using ethical concerns as a basis for policy, we should justify policy on the basis of how something is impacting our ability as a project to deliver a really great programming language.
if the orphan grinder lets us make a better programming language then FIRE THOSE BABIES UP
@Athena if there's one thing i'm pretty sure they said at the business ethics course i didn't take in university, it's that externalities don't exist
-
@Athena fwiw I agree with you, just, damage control atm
a large portion of the team is anti-LLM but a few key folks in charge are stonewalling discussion
-
@Athena That reasoning from the Rust devs... I'm sorry but how is it different from eugenics? Proponents of eugenics also had the betterment of the species as a stated goal. Both of them are putting aside ethical concerns in the name of apparent progress.
Also, any statement that starts out with "Instead of using ethical concerns as a basis for policy" should have everything following discarded because it doesn't say anything important. You started out with stating you don't give a shit about ethics so quite frankly anything else you're saying is null and void@reiddragon in fairness, that isn’t the opening line, it’s a few paragraphs in
in continuing fairness, the additional paragraphs do not help one iota
-
@Athena
Why am I suddenly thinking of Joseph Mengeles contributions to health care?@leeloo mengele made contributions to health care?
-
-
cited as reason to allow LLM contributions experimentally:
Instead of using ethical concerns as a basis for policy, we should justify policy on the basis of how something is impacting our ability as a project to deliver a really great programming language.
if the orphan grinder lets us make a better programming language then FIRE THOSE BABIES UP
@Athena LLM people saw the scene in Snowerpiercer where the kid is part of the engine and were like "yeah, let's do that".
-
@leeloo mengele made contributions to health care?
@Athena
I believe I have previously read so, but I don't recall a source.He did a lot of hunan experimenting, and even if was done entirely for his own sadistic pleasures, he must have learned something along the way.
-
@Athena oh yes, it has, but you underestimate how many people on the team are pissed about that and want it to change but need to be diplomatic about it so they don't lose their jobs or positions
like, the tech industry is extremely unfavorable to people who dissent to LLMs and just showing up and complaining that people aren't doing enough is putting these people in impossible positions where they agree with you but are forced to say nothing and let the fascists dunk on you because they can't be so overt about it
I've been especially frustrated lately because this has been happening to me too, but like, at least I know what the situation is and am working on changing it. again, I'm just pointing out that even though you were extremely tame in the discussion relative to what you're saying here, all you did is invite more folks to throw shit and get the discussion locked so now not even I can comment on it
@clarfonthey @Athena “you underestimate how many people on the team are pissed about that and want it to change but need to be diplomatic about it so they don't lose their jobs or positions”
historically this is a great way to not change anything
-
@Athena
I believe I have previously read so, but I don't recall a source.He did a lot of hunan experimenting, and even if was done entirely for his own sadistic pleasures, he must have learned something along the way.
@leeloo I am extremely hesitant to jump to the conclusion that some useful learning must have come out of it. One can do all kinds of experiments without producing usable scientific knowledge. It’s possible to just be evil and fucked up and call it something with an ounce of virtue like “experiments” without any actual virtue
And I believe this is what I recall from what I read of the man
-
cited as reason to allow LLM contributions experimentally:
Instead of using ethical concerns as a basis for policy, we should justify policy on the basis of how something is impacting our ability as a project to deliver a really great programming language.
if the orphan grinder lets us make a better programming language then FIRE THOSE BABIES UP
@Athena rust is, after all, a top language for cryptocurrencies and military contracts
-
@clarfonthey @Athena “you underestimate how many people on the team are pissed about that and want it to change but need to be diplomatic about it so they don't lose their jobs or positions”
historically this is a great way to not change anything
-
@Athena
"we know we are putting them at risk, but these tiny child bodys fit in the small mining tunnels the best. we would loose a lot of productivity if we banned this praxis. NO ETHICS DISCUSSION PLEASE"@Athena
"we can talk about weather the productivity increase offsets the cost of the diaper washing plant tho" -
tell me you’re a coward without telling me
No comment on this PR may mention the following topics:
Long-term social or economic impact of LLMs
The environmental impact of LLMs
Anything to do with the copyright status of LLM output
Moral judgements about people who use LLMs
We have asked the moderation team to help us enforce these rules."Let's not talk about the social, economic, or environment impact", and other quotes good people who believe their thing is good for the world say.
-
tell me you’re a coward without telling me
No comment on this PR may mention the following topics:
Long-term social or economic impact of LLMs
The environmental impact of LLMs
Anything to do with the copyright status of LLM output
Moral judgements about people who use LLMs
We have asked the moderation team to help us enforce these rules.@Athena it doesn't matter to me what policy they end up with. If this is representative of their approach to ethics Rust is dead to me.
-
tell me you’re a coward without telling me
No comment on this PR may mention the following topics:
Long-term social or economic impact of LLMs
The environmental impact of LLMs
Anything to do with the copyright status of LLM output
Moral judgements about people who use LLMs
We have asked the moderation team to help us enforce these rules.@Athena 'I want the thing so I will do the thing, but I don't want people to yell at me quite as much so I will mention their concerns as I handwave them away as unworthy of consideration. I am important so what I want is more important than the future of the planet so they will be cool with that.'
You just know that whoever wrote that post has at least three bitcoin wallets and has tried to insert Blockchain into projects that didn't need it in any way.
-
tell me you’re a coward without telling me
No comment on this PR may mention the following topics:
Long-term social or economic impact of LLMs
The environmental impact of LLMs
Anything to do with the copyright status of LLM output
Moral judgements about people who use LLMs
We have asked the moderation team to help us enforce these rules.I understand you're frustrated, but I don't think this kind of language helps anyone.
Tell me you're not used to having to face the people your actions have harmed without etc. etc.
That "I don't think this kind of language is helpful" phrase is a fairly solid litmus test for if someone is just trying to shut down an inconvenient line of debate.
Which, in fairness, hardly needs much testing when they admit it in the OP, but nonetheless, it's a cowardly way to address it.
