One more “Peoples of the North, hear my plea” for the Netherlands and friends today:
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@David this hasn’t been my experience of my corner grocery store’s parking spaces. The Dutch are vastly more willing to leave a young kid unattended for five minutes than Americans
It's the entire culture in North America.
In Canada, I tried to leave an 8 and 9 year old at a museum activity space with clear instructions for the two girls where the other mom and I would be and even giving them walkie talkies. This was an attempt at giving them responsibility and being big girls on their own. We got stopped by museum staff telling us we can't leave children unattended.
Parents are judged constantly for giving their children space to grow up
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One more “Peoples of the North, hear my plea” for the Netherlands and friends today:
If you leave your child or dog in the car today while you run into the grocery store, they will seriously actually literally be dead by the time you get back.
When I lived in Virginia, they put signs up in grocery store parking lots with dog icons to remind you of this. It only takes a few minutes of a windows-closed car parked in direct heatwave sunlight to kill a toddler or a dog.
Since such heat rarely happens here, I expect a lot of people don’t realize just how serious this is.
@0xabad1dea Either that, or (in the US) you will come back to find your window smashed and the police waiting for you.
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@0xabad1dea Either that, or (in the US) you will come back to find your window smashed and the police waiting for you.
@ben @0xabad1dea Australia, too. Either the cops, or an angry mum who wants work off some stress beating some sense into whatever braincells remain in the head of anyone stupid enough to do that.
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(as an interesting aside: the signs had only a dog icon and not a baby icon because the Americans are an extremely kidnapping-paranoid culture, and leaving your own young child unattended for even a moment in public can easily get you arrested for negligence. So, it's pretty rare for a young child to be alone in a parked car regardless.)
@0xabad1dea all of the American laws against leaving kids in the car unattended that I’m aware of were written in response to heat, not kidnapping. It doesn’t take much for a car to heat to dangerous levels.
It’s funny though - people learn not to leave kids in the car because “it’s illegal” and the motivation for WHY it’s illegal gets forgotten. Then we need signs to remind folks that heat can kill pets, etc.
The law in California is particularly strict. A kid under 6 can’t be unattended in a car for *any* amount of time, with mandatory reporting requirements if certain professions (teachers, health professionals, etc) see it happen. It was a big enough deal that my kid’s preschool had staff available to attend your car if you needed to run in to drop off and sign your kid in while a younger sibling slept in the car. Given the number of infant siblings, I’m sure that saved a LOT of calls to the police.
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Even in the UK leaving a child or dog in a car in hot weather can easily be fatal. I've known this for decades - it's not just an effect of climate change.
If you come across this situation, smash a window FIRST. Then call emergency services.
@regordane @Taco_lad @0xabad1dea Or ... try just opening the door before smashing the window??
I left a hire car unlocked in Sydney on purpose, so that anyone who wanted to break into it to steal the 50c coins that I kept in the ashtray for the harbour bridge wouldn't have to damage the car, but they opened the door with a crowbar anyway. In order to steal a couple of 50c coins.
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@Taco_lad @0xabad1dea in California, smashing a window or breaking into a car with an unattended child in it is *explicitly* permitted under Good Samaritan laws, assuming you’ve notified law enforcement first.
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@0xabad1dea all of the American laws against leaving kids in the car unattended that I’m aware of were written in response to heat, not kidnapping. It doesn’t take much for a car to heat to dangerous levels.
It’s funny though - people learn not to leave kids in the car because “it’s illegal” and the motivation for WHY it’s illegal gets forgotten. Then we need signs to remind folks that heat can kill pets, etc.
The law in California is particularly strict. A kid under 6 can’t be unattended in a car for *any* amount of time, with mandatory reporting requirements if certain professions (teachers, health professionals, etc) see it happen. It was a big enough deal that my kid’s preschool had staff available to attend your car if you needed to run in to drop off and sign your kid in while a younger sibling slept in the car. Given the number of infant siblings, I’m sure that saved a LOT of calls to the police.
@mathaetaes I wasn't speaking of cars specifically. I mean in any context, at all. The United States is notorious for arresting parents for letting their children do age-appropriate activities in age-appropriate contexts without constant second-by-second supervision. Most other countries don't have this problem.
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It's the entire culture in North America.
In Canada, I tried to leave an 8 and 9 year old at a museum activity space with clear instructions for the two girls where the other mom and I would be and even giving them walkie talkies. This was an attempt at giving them responsibility and being big girls on their own. We got stopped by museum staff telling us we can't leave children unattended.
Parents are judged constantly for giving their children space to grow up
@chu @0xabad1dea @David meanwhile in Norway they have museums with signs «if your child breaks a leg climbing this rocks, don't come to us complaining»
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One more “Peoples of the North, hear my plea” for the Netherlands and friends today:
If you leave your child or dog in the car today while you run into the grocery store, they will seriously actually literally be dead by the time you get back.
When I lived in Virginia, they put signs up in grocery store parking lots with dog icons to remind you of this. It only takes a few minutes of a windows-closed car parked in direct heatwave sunlight to kill a toddler or a dog.
Since such heat rarely happens here, I expect a lot of people don’t realize just how serious this is.
@0xabad1dea yes. I grew up in Virginia, and summers usually hit 100 sometime 104 even back then (37.7-40 C) . And it is true - the creature, human or animal - will die in short order. Here's a story from like a month ago. https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/worst-nightmare-spotsylvania-mother-charged-after-baby-forgotten-in-hot-car-dies/4107432/
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@0xabad1dea
And here I am wondering if I can risk leaving my self-inflating sleeping mat in my car, or it will be ruined by the time I get back.Seriously, folks, cars are greenhouses on stereoids, don't leave anyone you care about in there unless they are fully capable of leaving on their own.
@leeloo @0xabad1dea no it will probably wreck it.
Camping mats hate extreme heat, synthetic insulation particularly but generally, not a good idea. Especially if inflated, but even deflated heat can ruin the glue.
It's also why you should never leave synthetic sleeping bags above boilers or warm areas...it fries the insulation. Down doesn't care, but primaloft or whatever prefers being cool.
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One more “Peoples of the North, hear my plea” for the Netherlands and friends today:
If you leave your child or dog in the car today while you run into the grocery store, they will seriously actually literally be dead by the time you get back.
When I lived in Virginia, they put signs up in grocery store parking lots with dog icons to remind you of this. It only takes a few minutes of a windows-closed car parked in direct heatwave sunlight to kill a toddler or a dog.
Since such heat rarely happens here, I expect a lot of people don’t realize just how serious this is.
@0xabad1dea
This is not at all a new problem in the Netherlands. -
One more “Peoples of the North, hear my plea” for the Netherlands and friends today:
If you leave your child or dog in the car today while you run into the grocery store, they will seriously actually literally be dead by the time you get back.
When I lived in Virginia, they put signs up in grocery store parking lots with dog icons to remind you of this. It only takes a few minutes of a windows-closed car parked in direct heatwave sunlight to kill a toddler or a dog.
Since such heat rarely happens here, I expect a lot of people don’t realize just how serious this is.
@0xabad1dea
Yeah the heat in cars is deadly.If the AC is still running (some cars can do that), ok
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One more “Peoples of the North, hear my plea” for the Netherlands and friends today:
If you leave your child or dog in the car today while you run into the grocery store, they will seriously actually literally be dead by the time you get back.
When I lived in Virginia, they put signs up in grocery store parking lots with dog icons to remind you of this. It only takes a few minutes of a windows-closed car parked in direct heatwave sunlight to kill a toddler or a dog.
Since such heat rarely happens here, I expect a lot of people don’t realize just how serious this is.
@0xabad1dea ++
Buy your dog a wet coat, cold mat, take it out pre-8am, give them a shaded corner of the home etc. Also, find out if your dog like ice cubes and frozen treats.
Above all, don't make them suffer for your ignorance.
This goes as much for #uk as it does from our friends across the river on the mainland.
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One more “Peoples of the North, hear my plea” for the Netherlands and friends today:
If you leave your child or dog in the car today while you run into the grocery store, they will seriously actually literally be dead by the time you get back.
When I lived in Virginia, they put signs up in grocery store parking lots with dog icons to remind you of this. It only takes a few minutes of a windows-closed car parked in direct heatwave sunlight to kill a toddler or a dog.
Since such heat rarely happens here, I expect a lot of people don’t realize just how serious this is.
@0xabad1dea It took me a minute to get how it could happen. People drive with the windows closed because they have A/C and then they forget them closed. I was like who in their right mind would deliberately close the windows with their poor dog in a heatwave?
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(as an interesting aside: the signs had only a dog icon and not a baby icon because the Americans are an extremely kidnapping-paranoid culture, and leaving your own young child unattended for even a moment in public can easily get you arrested for negligence. So, it's pretty rare for a young child to be alone in a parked car regardless.)
@0xabad1dea
Also the elderly shouldn't be left in vehicles either. They easily get confused about how to open the door or even open the window and heat stress will make the confusion worse. -
(as an interesting aside: the signs had only a dog icon and not a baby icon because the Americans are an extremely kidnapping-paranoid culture, and leaving your own young child unattended for even a moment in public can easily get you arrested for negligence. So, it's pretty rare for a young child to be alone in a parked car regardless.)
No, Americans leave their babies in hot cars too, unfortunately. A web search for “baby in hot car” will yield plenty of results from the USA.
And yes, the parents will get arrested for that. Not because they left their baby in the car, but because they did so in dangerously hot weather.
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