Something a bit worrying to note about using Ai in healthcare.
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Something a bit worrying to note about using Ai in healthcare.
I’ve had two specialist appointments recently, both using ai to transcribe. Both sent report letters with inaccuracies about my diagnoses and past medical history. Even my GP was like, “huh, that directly contradicts what I put in the referrals.”
I have followed up both and requested amendments (which were done) but if I hadn’t, these inaccuracies could have significantly damaged ongoing care, further treatment or insurance claims.
Human error has always been a factor, but both doctors were clearly using the ai software and assuming what it spat out was correct. They made no other notes during the appointments to cross-reference and double check. This is how Very Bad Things can happen.
@bloodflowersburning Ask GPT to write code for you. Same problem,. forgets or invents context, addresses a different problem, gets fixated on minutiae when the problem is structural. And if you even hint at what you think the Delphi 2.0
will fart out you get "CONGRATULATIONS YOUR A GENIUS"
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@bloodflowersburning Ask GPT to write code for you. Same problem,. forgets or invents context, addresses a different problem, gets fixated on minutiae when the problem is structural. And if you even hint at what you think the Delphi 2.0
will fart out you get "CONGRATULATIONS YOUR A GENIUS"@nzJayZee sadly these are all phrases that I don’t have much frame of reference with, but I’m assuming the tl/dr is basically “ai hallucinates most of the content it spews out and generally makes things worse”?
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@nzJayZee sadly these are all phrases that I don’t have much frame of reference with, but I’m assuming the tl/dr is basically “ai hallucinates most of the content it spews out and generally makes things worse”?
@bloodflowersburning Yes. In my experience it does make things worse by inventing and obsessing over bad solutions (keeps returning to the same shitty solution to a programming problem) What keeps me up at night is algorithmic cruelty when it's used in stuff like job applications or negotiating social services., "Computer Says No"
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Two friends have told me in the last week they had similar issues happen. One had an incorrect diagnosis listed before they had a procedure done. The other noted viral not bacterial infection (although they did at least get the medication they needed). I feel like I’m being a pain in the bum going over everything and requesting corrections, but I’m seeing so many mistakes, to the point where any human reading them would immediately say “that doesn’t even make sense”. I worry for those who don’t or aren’t capable of checking these things. Sure, using ai might save the docs 10 minutes per patient in the ER but is that really worth the risks?
@bloodflowersburning Where are doctors using ai like this? And how did you check the transcribes?
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Something a bit worrying to note about using Ai in healthcare.
I’ve had two specialist appointments recently, both using ai to transcribe. Both sent report letters with inaccuracies about my diagnoses and past medical history. Even my GP was like, “huh, that directly contradicts what I put in the referrals.”
I have followed up both and requested amendments (which were done) but if I hadn’t, these inaccuracies could have significantly damaged ongoing care, further treatment or insurance claims.
Human error has always been a factor, but both doctors were clearly using the ai software and assuming what it spat out was correct. They made no other notes during the appointments to cross-reference and double check. This is how Very Bad Things can happen.
@bloodflowersburning "your future doctor are studying using chat gpt". I don't think I've ever wanted more for something to collapse than AI.
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@bloodflowersburning Where are doctors using ai like this? And how did you check the transcribes?
@theron29 Genuine question or scepticism? I’m in Aotearoa NZ. Doctors were from two different specialist medical departments. Both used ai software to record consultation and take notes. The report letters sent to my GP contained multiple discrepancies about conditions discussed, and referenced in GP referrals. If they had checked before sending they would have realised mistakes had been made. My GP questioned the content, which was how I became aware. I can provide several specific examples but would rather not on a public forum to a stranger. However, both letters were re-assessed and sent again with corrections on request. Hope this helps.
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@bloodflowersburning Yes. In my experience it does make things worse by inventing and obsessing over bad solutions (keeps returning to the same shitty solution to a programming problem) What keeps me up at night is algorithmic cruelty when it's used in stuff like job applications or negotiating social services., "Computer Says No"
@nzJayZee quoted from this article on RNZ: “He said jobseekers were using AI to generate their applications, while employers were using AI to read them.”
The snake is eating its own tail. -
@bloodflowersburning "your future doctor are studying using chat gpt". I don't think I've ever wanted more for something to collapse than AI.
@JD38 I think most students of all disciplines are now.
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@theron29 Genuine question or scepticism? I’m in Aotearoa NZ. Doctors were from two different specialist medical departments. Both used ai software to record consultation and take notes. The report letters sent to my GP contained multiple discrepancies about conditions discussed, and referenced in GP referrals. If they had checked before sending they would have realised mistakes had been made. My GP questioned the content, which was how I became aware. I can provide several specific examples but would rather not on a public forum to a stranger. However, both letters were re-assessed and sent again with corrections on request. Hope this helps.
@bloodflowersburning Genuine question (from central EU). (AI Scepticism is expected to come a bit later on...
).
Doctors are not using AI here, yet. I guess this tech had to be certified and tested before it was admitted into doctor's realm?Although this does not seem to be the worst usecase scenario where&how to use AI, your detailed explanation gives doubts whether the tech is actually ready now for anything *this* important....
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@bloodflowersburning Genuine question (from central EU). (AI Scepticism is expected to come a bit later on...
).
Doctors are not using AI here, yet. I guess this tech had to be certified and tested before it was admitted into doctor's realm?Although this does not seem to be the worst usecase scenario where&how to use AI, your detailed explanation gives doubts whether the tech is actually ready now for anything *this* important....
@theron29 Agreed. Not the worst case scenario. For me personally it could have caused issues with further treatment, getting reimbursed by insurance, and caused confusion when needing ongoing care with other providers. So more an avoidable inconvenience and extra paperwork rather than a dangerous outcome in this example. I hope that’s the worst possibility across the board, and that people check their notes carefully to catch any inconsistencies.
Mistakes in medical notes have always happened, unfortunately it’s inevitable. Only time will tell if this becomes more of an issue if/when ai transcription is used in medical settings more frequently and if it generates a higher number of errors as opposed to human note taking. What I think is essential is that we still retain a human buffer to assess factual accuracy, rather than simply assuming (hoping?) the software can do it better.
For more info, the software Heidi AI Scribes has been endorsed for use within Health NZ. https://www.tewhatuora.govt.nz/health-services-and-programmes/digital-health/generative-ai-and-large-language-models#naiaeag-endorsed-tools
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@JD38 I think most students of all disciplines are now.
@bloodflowersburning yeah, i was just too lazy to write multiple disciplines
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@nzJayZee quoted from this article on RNZ: “He said jobseekers were using AI to generate their applications, while employers were using AI to read them.”
The snake is eating its own tail.@bloodflowersburning I like the idea of applicant pushback. for something like $40 NZD /mth you can have all the "job application agents" via Claude. Totally agree about the snake.eating its tail . We should be building community resilience instead of data centers IMO.
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@bloodflowersburning I like the idea of applicant pushback. for something like $40 NZD /mth you can have all the "job application agents" via Claude. Totally agree about the snake.eating its tail . We should be building community resilience instead of data centers IMO.
@nzJayZee careful now, “community” seems to be a dirty word in some circles. Don’t be that radical lefty reminding people to be kind and care for others.
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@nzJayZee careful now, “community” seems to be a dirty word in some circles. Don’t be that radical lefty reminding people to be kind and care for others.
@bloodflowersburning I'd never! The market knows best.
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@nzJayZee careful now, “community” seems to be a dirty word in some circles. Don’t be that radical lefty reminding people to be kind and care for others.
@bloodflowersburning When you help someone with their groceries/stairs/anything or call an ambulance when someone's hurt the most important thing shouldn't be "How am I compensated". David Graeber called this (deliberately provocative) "baseline communism" it's why when 2 people working in a repair shop go "pass me the wrench," ..""ok" instead of entering into a wrench contract
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@bloodflowersburning When you help someone with their groceries/stairs/anything or call an ambulance when someone's hurt the most important thing shouldn't be "How am I compensated". David Graeber called this (deliberately provocative) "baseline communism" it's why when 2 people working in a repair shop go "pass me the wrench," ..""ok" instead of entering into a wrench contract
@bloodflowersburning (I know that's not how NZ works, and I feel sad about it)
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Something a bit worrying to note about using Ai in healthcare.
I’ve had two specialist appointments recently, both using ai to transcribe. Both sent report letters with inaccuracies about my diagnoses and past medical history. Even my GP was like, “huh, that directly contradicts what I put in the referrals.”
I have followed up both and requested amendments (which were done) but if I hadn’t, these inaccuracies could have significantly damaged ongoing care, further treatment or insurance claims.
Human error has always been a factor, but both doctors were clearly using the ai software and assuming what it spat out was correct. They made no other notes during the appointments to cross-reference and double check. This is how Very Bad Things can happen.
@bloodflowersburning I also see this as a HIPAA violation
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@bloodflowersburning I also see this as a HIPAA violation
@MamaLake Unfortunately HIPPA doesn't apply in New Zealand law. But I think it's covered under the Health Information Privacy Code 2020 (HIPC) as Health NZ have authorised the use of specific tools (Heidi AI Scribe) in healthcare.
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Something a bit worrying to note about using Ai in healthcare.
I’ve had two specialist appointments recently, both using ai to transcribe. Both sent report letters with inaccuracies about my diagnoses and past medical history. Even my GP was like, “huh, that directly contradicts what I put in the referrals.”
I have followed up both and requested amendments (which were done) but if I hadn’t, these inaccuracies could have significantly damaged ongoing care, further treatment or insurance claims.
Human error has always been a factor, but both doctors were clearly using the ai software and assuming what it spat out was correct. They made no other notes during the appointments to cross-reference and double check. This is how Very Bad Things can happen.
Please check out https://stopgenai.com
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Please check out https://stopgenai.com
@kimcrawley interesting initiative. Is there any section in particular you’d like me to focus on?
My plan going forwards is to refuse the use of ai when recording medical consultations and to record my own notes (as a disability accessibility need) and keep checking everything for inconsistencies/mistakes.
