I think sometimes, writing fiction can fall into the same trap as writing code.
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This also goes back to why people who think an LLM "generating content" are missing the point.
The LLM can't be another person who is telling me a story. When people tell stories they are trying to share something, to take us to a place, or show us something that won't fit in a few sentence. Something bigger.
Pages filled with text are one way to do that, but the pages aren't THE POINT. It's just how the author decided to share their story.
With the LLM there is no author.
@futurebird @asakiyume an LLM is basically the same technology as https://botnik.org/apps/writer/?source=cec3d8c22a80860692f7f1edcc163b83 (a story writer that allows you to pick between words that jerry seinfeld said) but with two major differences:
- the algorithm to figure out what the potential next words are is much more complicated (with gigabytes of numbers that are multiplied and added together in some opaque way), and
- instead of picking the words from a keyboard, the words are picked at random from the possibilities.
That's it.
Sometimes there's a separate piece of software that tries to detect when the randomly selected words are saying something like a math problem and it'll do the math and then inject the result back into the document that's being generated, but the actual LLM is only aware of probabilities of the next word in the document, and the only way it can act on those probabilities is to pick one of the possible next words at random.
There's no actual thinking going on.
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This also goes back to why people who think an LLM "generating content" are missing the point.
The LLM can't be another person who is telling me a story. When people tell stories they are trying to share something, to take us to a place, or show us something that won't fit in a few sentence. Something bigger.
Pages filled with text are one way to do that, but the pages aren't THE POINT. It's just how the author decided to share their story.
With the LLM there is no author.
@futurebird @asakiyume creators and decisions. LLMs are/have neither
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This also goes back to why people who think an LLM "generating content" are missing the point.
The LLM can't be another person who is telling me a story. When people tell stories they are trying to share something, to take us to a place, or show us something that won't fit in a few sentence. Something bigger.
Pages filled with text are one way to do that, but the pages aren't THE POINT. It's just how the author decided to share their story.
With the LLM there is no author.
>With the LLM there is no author.
i get the point and agree
but ..also think that *whatever* TOS (tldr) probably claims it on behalf of the "provider"
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But they weren't bad. That's not really my point. Reading the chapters and experiencing the story in a linear way also made sense. That's part of the joy of a book, it's an experience that takes time to process. When I see that an audiobook is 13 hours long I'm pretty excited to spend all of those hours in that world.
But storytelling can also be more dense. And that interests me. How much could you take away and still have the same story? What might be improved by doing this?
3/3
@futurebird Fun fact: I have two versions of Moby Dick - the original (Danish translation) and an abridged version. The former is some 600 pages, the latter about 80.
If you read the short one you know the story - but the experience is very different & I'm not just talking about the weight...
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@futurebird One hundred percent agree about every aspect of this: the non-monetized part, the sitting-around-the-fire part. How this is something really special about sharing stories online.
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>With the LLM there is no author.
i get the point and agree
but ..also think that *whatever* TOS (tldr) probably claims it on behalf of the "provider"
@pt_ickle @futurebird @asakiyume You missed the point entirely.
"Author" is not playing a role as a legal term here but as a perspective, the one who is conveying something about their reality using words.
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I think sometimes, writing fiction can fall into the same trap as writing code.
"I wrote 200 lines of code!"
No one cares. What does it do?
Especially in this era, where if you just want to lay down bland paragraphs, if you want to just generate "content" you can have an LLM do it.
Suddenly quality, intention, elegance matter much more.
Because only a person can tell another person a story.
1/
@futurebird at MSN I think we were judged by lines of code because nobody understood code.
I had a GED and VPs with fancy degrees did not understand my edge caching patent because it was too elegant and efficient.
An xml, an infinitely recursive loop. Not many lines of code. Just tight.
But you should have seen the spaghetti code the portals all once were before we had a proper architecture!
It’s like a dick measuring contest.
Plenty of lines of code!
None great!
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@pt_ickle @futurebird @asakiyume You missed the point entirely.
"Author" is not playing a role as a legal term here but as a perspective, the one who is conveying something about their reality using words.
@dalias @futurebird @asakiyume
i get that 100%
though in the world of "licensing" and
legalese ( one the users of sas jump into even if unknowingly)
id be surprised if they do not they "own" the output>"Author" is not playing a role as a legal term here
not hear but likely in the TOS of such generative sas
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@dalias @futurebird @asakiyume
i get that 100%
though in the world of "licensing" and
legalese ( one the users of sas jump into even if unknowingly)
id be surprised if they do not they "own" the output>"Author" is not playing a role as a legal term here
not hear but likely in the TOS of such generative sas
@pt_ickle @futurebird @asakiyume This thread is not about licensing or legalese.
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I think sometimes, writing fiction can fall into the same trap as writing code.
"I wrote 200 lines of code!"
No one cares. What does it do?
Especially in this era, where if you just want to lay down bland paragraphs, if you want to just generate "content" you can have an LLM do it.
Suddenly quality, intention, elegance matter much more.
Because only a person can tell another person a story.
1/
@futurebird
"Suddenly quality, intention, elegance matter much more."
I've noticed my artwork stands out on an image search results page these days because most of the other results are gen AI: bland, generic, eyeball-skipable.
I definitely pour intent into it, and aim for quality. -
@futurebird Something I've thought about a lot is how the writer of a book or piece of music lays the groundwork for a moment of catharsis. If you take out some of that groundwork, the magic may not happen. For example, the bridge in a song only works because of what came before it.
“What if we play only the best part of every song?”
On the one hand, that’s not going to work. It’s only the “best part” because of how the rest of the song sets it up.
On the other hand, that idea gave us hiphop, so what do I know.
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But they weren't bad. That's not really my point. Reading the chapters and experiencing the story in a linear way also made sense. That's part of the joy of a book, it's an experience that takes time to process. When I see that an audiobook is 13 hours long I'm pretty excited to spend all of those hours in that world.
But storytelling can also be more dense. And that interests me. How much could you take away and still have the same story? What might be improved by doing this?
3/3
@futurebird I love Philip K Dick’s short stories. So dense with ideas and suffused with humanity.
