Information Warfare Alert: A lot of folks identifying as militant leftists are up on Mastodon today saying this new war somehow proves that they were right in not voting for Kamala Harris since 'they are all the same.'
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I look at voting for the lesser evil like climbing a mountain. One step at a time, we have to shift our position back towards a space where the choices are reasonable. If we simply abstain from voting, we are throwing up our hands and not pushing back. If we actively show our preferences, we signal to those considering entering the fray who are even further in the right direction that it's worthwhile to do so, and to those who are even further in the wrong direction that it is not. It's unfortunately not a fast process, but if you hike long enough and steadfastly enough, you can get to the top. It's not a matter of who or what you condone. It's a matter of which options you even have available to you in the first place.
In the meantime, we can complain loudly about just how bad the "good" choice is, and that helps the needle move, too.
@hosford42 @JimmyB @mastodonmigration @budududuroiu @geniodiabolico
This assumes voting is the only option, which it isn't. By all means, vote, but if that's all that constitutes a step for you, then, that means you prefer the comfort of an imperialist liberal democracy over any alternative, even if it means your imperialist liberal democracy deals death and destruction across the world.
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I look at voting for the lesser evil like climbing a mountain. One step at a time, we have to shift our position back towards a space where the choices are reasonable. If we simply abstain from voting, we are throwing up our hands and not pushing back. If we actively show our preferences, we signal to those considering entering the fray who are even further in the right direction that it's worthwhile to do so, and to those who are even further in the wrong direction that it is not. It's unfortunately not a fast process, but if you hike long enough and steadfastly enough, you can get to the top. It's not a matter of who or what you condone. It's a matter of which options you even have available to you in the first place.
In the meantime, we can complain loudly about just how bad the "good" choice is, and that helps the needle move, too.
@geniodiabolico @hosford42 @mastodonmigration @budududuroiu I can see this argument: I don’t buy into it personally but I understand it.
My issue is with the corporate dems who see Russian bots and militant leftists when presented with evidence that their candidate is (profoundly) unpalatable. I mean it’s not outrageous to say: I cannot vote for genocide.
And yet those who do so are unthinkingly accused
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@hosford42 @JimmyB @mastodonmigration @budududuroiu @geniodiabolico
This assumes voting is the only option, which it isn't. By all means, vote, but if that's all that constitutes a step for you, then, that means you prefer the comfort of an imperialist liberal democracy over any alternative, even if it means your imperialist liberal democracy deals death and destruction across the world.
It does not, if you take a look at the last bit.
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Didn't sound snarky at all.
@mastodonmigration Not snarky. ...maybe a little crotchety, though, towards the offenders. 🤭 @MaryAustinBooks
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This isn't anything novel. The technical term in the field of machine learning is called "gradient descent" (or in this case, ascent) and it is mathematically proven to work, so long as you build on previous successes and don't backslide.
@mastodonmigration @budududuroiu @hosford42 @geniodiabolico that ‘so long as’ is doing too much heavy lifting for me in a world where the popular social democrat candidates are blocked by corporate ‘centrists’
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It does not, if you take a look at the last bit.
By "complain", I don't just refer to speech. I am talking about activism, strikes, etc.
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This isn't anything novel. The technical term in the field of machine learning is called "gradient descent" (or in this case, ascent) and it is mathematically proven to work, so long as you build on previous successes and don't backslide.
@hosford42 @JimmyB @mastodonmigration @geniodiabolico gradient descent is a perfect analogy because on its own, most optimisers will get stuck in local optima and will need perturbations and "backsliding" to escape.
The dem local optima is based on social justice signalling without political substance.
Movements like Uncommitted were those perturbations that would allow gradient descent to find global optimum, but those were shut down
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@mastodonmigration Not snarky. ...maybe a little crotchety, though, towards the offenders. 🤭 @MaryAustinBooks
@paul @mastodonmigration
At least I wasn't dropping f bombs this time. -
@notyourfanboy @mastodonmigration rather than actually face facts about how fucked up their corporatist, war mongering candidates are (remember Bernie won the popular vote but the party chose the corporatist war lobby instead), they see Russian bots, block the sane voices and scream a lot…
@JimmyB Your bio says you are a Brit. It's clear you do not understand how US presidential nominating contests actually work, or you would already know that while Sanders won state primaries in '16 and '20, he did not "win the popular vote" because he never advanced to the point where people not already registered as or aligned with Dems would be voting for him. Stanning a politico from overseas is weird. Don't do that.
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@paul @mastodonmigration
At least I wasn't dropping f bombs this time.@MaryAustinBooks ... About that. I was about to put on my best faux pearls, black top and Susan Collins wig and type a sternly worded post about how disappointed I was with the lack of swearing.
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@MaryAustinBooks ... About that. I was about to put on my best faux pearls, black top and Susan Collins wig and type a sternly worded post about how disappointed I was with the lack of swearing.
@paul @mastodonmigration
Well if you need more "vitamin f" from me, you can just go back through my posts and replies any time.
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Saying "oh no... Anyway" doesn't constite "trying to prevent Trump from being in office." American liberals seem to think voting absolves them of the crimes of their politicians. It doesn't.
Look to the French if you'd like an example. Why have you burned nothing while your country levels entire cities? Complicity.
i'm a leftist not a liberal
i protest and vote
more people need to do so and i advocate for that
but i'll put "burn down cities" as the next reasonable option
fucking clown
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@JimmyB Your bio says you are a Brit. It's clear you do not understand how US presidential nominating contests actually work, or you would already know that while Sanders won state primaries in '16 and '20, he did not "win the popular vote" because he never advanced to the point where people not already registered as or aligned with Dems would be voting for him. Stanning a politico from overseas is weird. Don't do that.
@mastodonmigration @liferstate @notyourfanboy polling consistently showed Bernie was the most popular Dem. Serious corporate activism prevented - as always - that progressing.
Playing the ‘you’re forin and don’t understand our complicated politics’ line reminds me so much of all the MAGAs who also don’t like that we are obliged to understand what happens in the US
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@paul @mastodonmigration
Well if you need more "vitamin f" from me, you can just go back through my posts and replies any time. @MaryAustinBooks At this stage of the week, I think I need the Sailor multi-vitamin. @mastodonmigration
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a perfect example - you live in NYC. You'll never face violence from ICE and you just elected a prominent socialist. You're insulated from the harms your own country does to its own citizens, let alone other countries, so, predictably, you aren't fighting very hard to stop what your country is doing. I don't necessarily blame you for this, a comfortable life is understandable, but don't claim you're doing something when you're not really.
i live in new york state, not new york city
"you just elected a prominent socialist"
yes, that is true about nyc. which is called effective change. do you think mamdani would be cooperating with israel if he were president? so our next step is to elect a mamdani to the presidency. you agree?
does that meet your exalting standards, oh hilarious pathetic edgelord?
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@geniodiabolico @hosford42 @mastodonmigration @budududuroiu I can see this argument: I don’t buy into it personally but I understand it.
My issue is with the corporate dems who see Russian bots and militant leftists when presented with evidence that their candidate is (profoundly) unpalatable. I mean it’s not outrageous to say: I cannot vote for genocide.
And yet those who do so are unthinkingly accused
I do think there are a lot of bots here that just kicked into high gear. It's not unreasonable to think that, either, given that we have seen documented influence campaigns by foreign states, which have had major effects on our political system and voting outcomes here. Our democracy has been under active attack for a decade or two now. I don't think assuming is good for anyone, but it does make sense to be on our guard. That's one of the effects that such campaigns probably actively strive for: General distrust of our fellow human beings, which aids in sowing division. So I instead take everything with a grain of salt, reserving judgment until signals are clear.
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Information Warfare Alert: A lot of folks identifying as militant leftists are up on Mastodon today saying this new war somehow proves that they were right in not voting for Kamala Harris since 'they are all the same.'
This is absurd.
This tactic was used very effectively to sow division and suppress Democratic votes in 2024.
These people are either misguided, and doing grave disservice to those they profess to support, or they are deliberate disinformation operators.
@mastodonmigration
lol, what is going on in this thread? -
@benroyce @Extra_Special_Carbon
I have no care whatsoever for American internal politics. Solve your own problems.
But if your country invades other ones, don't in turn whine when you find yourself in a public space full of non Americans and act, even nonconsensually on your part, as a lightning rod representative of our anger at your country's imperialist ambitions.
To us, you voted for this, and even if you personally didn't, you still benefit from it, or why else didn't you stop it?
@komali_2 @Extra_Special_Carbon
"I have no care whatsoever for American internal politics"
said the troll, sweating bullets entering dozens of comments on american internal politics
why are you so dumb?
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You've been spewing venom all over this thread, laughing at people for trying to show how the world feels about this American aversion to seeing their government for the unified whole that it is when it comes to foreign policy.
You went to the polls in 2016 and 2024 and elected Trump twice. Why should we believe Americans don't want what's happening in Iran? You didn't just let it happen, you VOTED for it.
so i voted for clinton, then biden, then harris
i would have prefered bernie sanders, but i'm not an idiot like some who don't vote and help us get trump
is this sufficient for you? do you wish more to vote like me? then you support me. or is your message "everything sucks nothing changes waah waah"
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I do think there are a lot of bots here that just kicked into high gear. It's not unreasonable to think that, either, given that we have seen documented influence campaigns by foreign states, which have had major effects on our political system and voting outcomes here. Our democracy has been under active attack for a decade or two now. I don't think assuming is good for anyone, but it does make sense to be on our guard. That's one of the effects that such campaigns probably actively strive for: General distrust of our fellow human beings, which aids in sowing division. So I instead take everything with a grain of salt, reserving judgment until signals are clear.
@hosford42 @mastodonmigration @geniodiabolico @budududuroiu there may be bots here and the fact I’ve not seen them doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
But as I am occasionally accused of being one such I know the accusation is also used lazily by those who also use a version of the ‘you’re foreign so what do you know?/what right do you have to comment’ gang of corporate Dems who see some genocide as ok…
