Information Warfare Alert: A lot of folks identifying as militant leftists are up on Mastodon today saying this new war somehow proves that they were right in not voting for Kamala Harris since 'they are all the same.'
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It doesn't really seem possible to have a conversation with you. Why do you bother posting?
there wasn't a conversation ever to be had. i'm laughing you. you're a lying moron
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We have a propaganda problem to solve. Voting won't help with that, but not voting won't help with that, either. We have to talk to our fellow citizens and make them aware of the wool being pulled over their eyes.
@budududuroiu @mastodonmigration @hosford42 @geniodiabolico yeah - it’s a bit weird: when I say ‘no one can be coerced into voting for genocide’ those folks who are rightly uncomfortable that this is exactly their strategy only hear me saying ‘don’t vote’. I’m never saying that. I always vote myself. Were I USian I might have voted Kamala. Point is disgust with her didn’t cause Trump to win.
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@benroyce @budududuroiu @mastodonmigration
I mean, if you don't know why you think on this issue the two people are different, how do you trust in your own beliefs?
From the outside looking in, it often seems like Americans just don't like the imperialism their country wreaks across the globe when the person with the wrong color on their party flag does it. Otherwise it's fine.
@komali_2 @budududuroiu @mastodonmigration
thank you for your projection of the weird demons in your head onto people who don't remotely think anything like you think they do
do ever try to be serious in your life?
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@hosford42 @mastodonmigration @geniodiabolico @budududuroiu there may be bots here and the fact I’ve not seen them doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
But as I am occasionally accused of being one such I know the accusation is also used lazily by those who also use a version of the ‘you’re foreign so what do you know?/what right do you have to comment’ gang of corporate Dems who see some genocide as ok…
I don't think any of the folks you've interacted with on this thread think that genocide is okay. I think it's just down to what alternatives we even have to choose between, and making sure to push for the best among those, rather than abdicating responsibility altogether. (I realize that's probably not how you see it, but it's how it looks to those of us who believe voting is worthwhile even though it's far from ideal.)
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@budududuroiu @mastodonmigration @hosford42 @geniodiabolico yeah - it’s a bit weird: when I say ‘no one can be coerced into voting for genocide’ those folks who are rightly uncomfortable that this is exactly their strategy only hear me saying ‘don’t vote’. I’m never saying that. I always vote myself. Were I USian I might have voted Kamala. Point is disgust with her didn’t cause Trump to win.
Then maybe we are all just victims of a communication disconnect. It does often sound like that, when people point out how awful some of Kamala's views and policies were.
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Local optima are only an issue in a static loss landscape. When the landscape is noisy and shifting (as we continue to learn from past mistakes) that knocks us out of the local optima.
@hosford42 @JimmyB @mastodonmigration @geniodiabolico I mean, in the context of the US election, there did seem to be a global optimum to win, which was to signal that you're taking the affordability crisis seriously.
I say this because Kamala's ratings always jumped when she talked affordability seriously and always slumped when she walked those positions back.
In absence of this and Gaza, Dems got stuck in a local optima, appearing disconnected from the general population, and it's obvious in the low turnout.
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I don't think any of the folks you've interacted with on this thread think that genocide is okay. I think it's just down to what alternatives we even have to choose between, and making sure to push for the best among those, rather than abdicating responsibility altogether. (I realize that's probably not how you see it, but it's how it looks to those of us who believe voting is worthwhile even though it's far from ideal.)
@geniodiabolico @mastodonmigration @hosford42 @budududuroiu oh - I think that in any meaningful way many folks in ‘liberal’ America are fine with genocide if it means they otherwise have to do something about it. Their screaming at folks like me pretty much proves that: so much easier than considering who their candidate is. And who wants to abdicate responsibility other than those who vote for genocide???
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@hosford42 @JimmyB @mastodonmigration @geniodiabolico I mean, in the context of the US election, there did seem to be a global optimum to win, which was to signal that you're taking the affordability crisis seriously.
I say this because Kamala's ratings always jumped when she talked affordability seriously and always slumped when she walked those positions back.
In absence of this and Gaza, Dems got stuck in a local optima, appearing disconnected from the general population, and it's obvious in the low turnout.
I guess we are applying the analogy differently. I was talking about the ongoing future, not just one moment.
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I guess we are applying the analogy differently. I was talking about the ongoing future, not just one moment.
@hosford42 @JimmyB @mastodonmigration @geniodiabolico yeah makes sense
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@geniodiabolico @mastodonmigration @hosford42 @budududuroiu oh - I think that in any meaningful way many folks in ‘liberal’ America are fine with genocide if it means they otherwise have to do something about it. Their screaming at folks like me pretty much proves that: so much easier than considering who their candidate is. And who wants to abdicate responsibility other than those who vote for genocide???
No argument here. I just don't think the people in this thread were among them.
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No argument here. I just don't think the people in this thread were among them.
@hosford42 @mastodonmigration @budududuroiu @geniodiabolico did you not see the ‘they’re all Russian bots’ and ‘genocide “grandstanding” ‘ comments?
I have to disagree - hopefully politely - but I think that in any meaningful way (ie have to do something about it/take responsibility for their candidate) those folks are just fine with genocide. Specially one in Gaza
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Then maybe we are all just victims of a communication disconnect. It does often sound like that, when people point out how awful some of Kamala's views and policies were.
@hosford42 @geniodiabolico @mastodonmigration @budududuroiu there is an instinct in centrist politics to spend a lot of energy shouting at the left. I find it odd: I mean theoretically there could be some common causing to be had. But somehow the left is held responsible for the success of fascism and a lot of energy goes into that narrative.
Much of that is manifestly based on ignorance of the actual arguments too
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@mastodonmigration yeah but i am the crazy one saying this is gonna become a problem!
it's already a huge world destroying problem
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it's already a huge world destroying problem
@benroyce @mastodonmigration since 2016
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@benroyce @mastodonmigration since 2016
@benroyce @mastodonmigration man that is 10 years of this BS!
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@RiaResists @jaredwhite @mastodonmigration
I'll be honest, I did, immediately. I don't play around with that. I've had that word screamed at me for an hour straight by ableist neighbors who knew I am autistic, which was traumatic, but I already hated that word long before that happened.
I appreciate that you took the time and personal reflection to edit, however, and I'm happy to talk to the admins and withdraw it if they give me the option. We all make mistakes, and those of us who are worth talking to a second try time learn from those mistakes and do better, as you have just done.
@hosford42 @jaredwhite @mastodonmigration Social media isn’t good for me.
I was severely scolded by long time mutuals over my #boycottamazon stance & have been considering leaving anyway.
And dude- I’m so sorry you were treated that way. It’s never ok.
I grew up w a severely disabled older brother. I don’t have to tell you the horrors of institutions of the ‘60a & ‘70s. Most adults were compassionate towards him. Kids were rotten. -
@mastodonmigration @liferstate @notyourfanboy polling consistently showed Bernie was the most popular Dem. Serious corporate activism prevented - as always - that progressing.
Playing the ‘you’re forin and don’t understand our complicated politics’ line reminds me so much of all the MAGAs who also don’t like that we are obliged to understand what happens in the US
@JimmyB To be fair, many US citizens also do not understand how the US political system works. And many of them are on on the fediverse spreading uninformed Hot Takes.
The base of the Democratic Party is Black voters. Sanders thought that class-first politics would carry him through, but in the US appealing to class has been a tool of racist demogogues as well as socialists.
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@nazokiyoubinbou The international relations corollary to Murc's Law is "actually, only the CIA has agency." A lot of people who profess to hate the US cannot imagine a world without the US at its center. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@liferstate @nazokiyoubinbou @mastodonmigration
If every bad thing that happens in the world is either because the US caused it or failed to prevent it (via some easy action), then the US already rules the world, just not in a benevolent fashion.
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@JimmyB To be fair, many US citizens also do not understand how the US political system works. And many of them are on on the fediverse spreading uninformed Hot Takes.
The base of the Democratic Party is Black voters. Sanders thought that class-first politics would carry him through, but in the US appealing to class has been a tool of racist demogogues as well as socialists.
@liferstate @notyourfanboy @mastodonmigration and you think that others post ‘hot takes’? And this is your analysis of why Bernie didn’t succeed? I mean… where to start? “Socialists” and racist demagogues eh?
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@CosmicTraveler @mastodonmigration Seriously, there is so much blaming Democrats going on today that I'm just reeling. Literally the Republican regime headed by Trump issued the orders to attack Iran. Not one single Democrat issued that order. Not one single Democrat approved that order.
I'm not saying Democrats are perfect. I'm not saying it's impossible a war could start under one. But the regime started this war, not a Democrat.
@mastodonmigration @nazokiyoubinbou Many of us who blame Dems only blame them for certain things. We know who and what the problem is. We also don't blame all the Dems—only certain ones.
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