jesus christ, Linux has had a 100% LLM takeover.
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@kawa @davidgerard It's now the year of the Linux Deskslop.
@Rob_T_Firefly @kawa @davidgerard i see what you did there
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jesus christ, Linux has had a 100% LLM takeover.
this project is completely cooked.
even after the AI bubble pop, it's not clear how to recover from this level of bullshit from this level of bullshitter.
https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/1099594/be20382b54a9b4cd/
> Linus Torvalds believes that blaming LLMs for the kernel community's problems is wrong, when the problem is LLM users who do not understand how to use them or how the kernel works. A properly trained LLM is a useful tool, but it takes a lot of time to reach that point.
> Torvalds and others repeatedly said low-quality contributions from new developers should receive low priority, and that the community should stop trying to make contribution easy. Many developers said, repeatedly, that trying to mentor those developers is almost always a waste of time; they do not listen.
> There is some concern about companies maintaining private kernels with LLM help, but there does not seem to be much to be done about it.
> Kernel developers should not be required to use LLMs to work in the community, but those who do need to have enough resources available to generate acceptable results.
The requirement to add Assisted-by tags to patches created with LLMs will be removed, but maintainers still want to know about how a patch was created.so how's it going already?
> The development community is struggling to keep up with the flood of security patches, and will continue to for some time. Some of the most urgent fixes may bypass maintainers and go straight to Torvalds. Maintainers were cautioned against telling their employers about vulnerabilities before public disclosure happens.
Really, I'm not out to suck ass as much as Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect.
@davidgerard "the community should stop trying to make contribution easy." is an incredible statement. Yes, everyone was spoiled by the extremely friendly and welcoming kernel submission experience, jumping through 900 flaming hoops on the LKML to get screamed at.
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@kawa @davidgerard It's now the year of the Linux Deskslop.
@Rob_T_Firefly @kawa @davidgerard sad but true
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J jwcph@helvede.net shared this topic
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jesus christ, Linux has had a 100% LLM takeover.
this project is completely cooked.
even after the AI bubble pop, it's not clear how to recover from this level of bullshit from this level of bullshitter.
https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/1099594/be20382b54a9b4cd/
> Linus Torvalds believes that blaming LLMs for the kernel community's problems is wrong, when the problem is LLM users who do not understand how to use them or how the kernel works. A properly trained LLM is a useful tool, but it takes a lot of time to reach that point.
> Torvalds and others repeatedly said low-quality contributions from new developers should receive low priority, and that the community should stop trying to make contribution easy. Many developers said, repeatedly, that trying to mentor those developers is almost always a waste of time; they do not listen.
> There is some concern about companies maintaining private kernels with LLM help, but there does not seem to be much to be done about it.
> Kernel developers should not be required to use LLMs to work in the community, but those who do need to have enough resources available to generate acceptable results.
The requirement to add Assisted-by tags to patches created with LLMs will be removed, but maintainers still want to know about how a patch was created.so how's it going already?
> The development community is struggling to keep up with the flood of security patches, and will continue to for some time. Some of the most urgent fixes may bypass maintainers and go straight to Torvalds. Maintainers were cautioned against telling their employers about vulnerabilities before public disclosure happens.
Really, I'm not out to suck ass as much as Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect.
@davidgerard Middle-aged men, on very comfortable salaries. This is what happens.
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@jookia@social.tchncs.de @davidgerard solidarity, you weren't alone with that experience I feel
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@davidgerard Middle-aged men, on very comfortable salaries. This is what happens.
“You’ll never leave”
jokes on you, dense chucklefuck im packing my bags (or trying)
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jesus christ, Linux has had a 100% LLM takeover.
this project is completely cooked.
even after the AI bubble pop, it's not clear how to recover from this level of bullshit from this level of bullshitter.
https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/1099594/be20382b54a9b4cd/
> Linus Torvalds believes that blaming LLMs for the kernel community's problems is wrong, when the problem is LLM users who do not understand how to use them or how the kernel works. A properly trained LLM is a useful tool, but it takes a lot of time to reach that point.
> Torvalds and others repeatedly said low-quality contributions from new developers should receive low priority, and that the community should stop trying to make contribution easy. Many developers said, repeatedly, that trying to mentor those developers is almost always a waste of time; they do not listen.
> There is some concern about companies maintaining private kernels with LLM help, but there does not seem to be much to be done about it.
> Kernel developers should not be required to use LLMs to work in the community, but those who do need to have enough resources available to generate acceptable results.
The requirement to add Assisted-by tags to patches created with LLMs will be removed, but maintainers still want to know about how a patch was created.so how's it going already?
> The development community is struggling to keep up with the flood of security patches, and will continue to for some time. Some of the most urgent fixes may bypass maintainers and go straight to Torvalds. Maintainers were cautioned against telling their employers about vulnerabilities before public disclosure happens.
Really, I'm not out to suck ass as much as Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect.
@davidgerard wow, I thought I had more time to get rid of Linux completely. It is a much more pressing issue it seems.
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“You’ll never leave”
jokes on you, dense chucklefuck im packing my bags (or trying)
Gonna format a storage device that can hold partitions for both Chimera Linux and NetBSD.
That way if I have to slink to linux land for compatibility issues i have a backup
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@davidgerard "the community should stop trying to make contribution easy." is an incredible statement. Yes, everyone was spoiled by the extremely friendly and welcoming kernel submission experience, jumping through 900 flaming hoops on the LKML to get screamed at.
@moralrecordings @davidgerard real strong “old men yell at those goddamn kids to get off their lawn” vibes from that whole thing.
Open source projects do definitely need to think about succession and passing projects on to the next generation, but I’m pretty sure “fuck you all, piss off” isn’t going to go down in history as one of the better plans for this.
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@davidgerard Well. So much for the Year of the Linux Desktop.
@kawa @davidgerard Thank God Linux is rarely used on servers or embedded devices.
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@jookia@social.tchncs.de @davidgerard@circumstances.run a further question is, what about git? will that also slopify?
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@jookia@social.tchncs.de @davidgerard@circumstances.run yeah. I suppose. Time to see if I can restore the Commodores I had as a child.
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jesus christ, Linux has had a 100% LLM takeover.
this project is completely cooked.
even after the AI bubble pop, it's not clear how to recover from this level of bullshit from this level of bullshitter.
https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/1099594/be20382b54a9b4cd/
> Linus Torvalds believes that blaming LLMs for the kernel community's problems is wrong, when the problem is LLM users who do not understand how to use them or how the kernel works. A properly trained LLM is a useful tool, but it takes a lot of time to reach that point.
> Torvalds and others repeatedly said low-quality contributions from new developers should receive low priority, and that the community should stop trying to make contribution easy. Many developers said, repeatedly, that trying to mentor those developers is almost always a waste of time; they do not listen.
> There is some concern about companies maintaining private kernels with LLM help, but there does not seem to be much to be done about it.
> Kernel developers should not be required to use LLMs to work in the community, but those who do need to have enough resources available to generate acceptable results.
The requirement to add Assisted-by tags to patches created with LLMs will be removed, but maintainers still want to know about how a patch was created.so how's it going already?
> The development community is struggling to keep up with the flood of security patches, and will continue to for some time. Some of the most urgent fixes may bypass maintainers and go straight to Torvalds. Maintainers were cautioned against telling their employers about vulnerabilities before public disclosure happens.
Really, I'm not out to suck ass as much as Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect.
@davidgerard@circumstances.run killing a project any percent
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@jookia@social.tchncs.de @davidgerard Maybe I just haven't had the right Bad Experience, but it actually seems like the NetBSD folks are very open to contribution, and I've never felt so little friction to making the package universe or the drivers better. When I'm less loaded down with other tasks, both the graphical and audio drivers are things I'd like to help fix, although the audio will probably be the easier starting point.
I also have a wholesome ulterior motive. I am repeatedly on record with my belief that drivers should not be managed as part of a kernel - they should be independent projects reusable across multiple kernels. NetBSD is the only OS doing anything even in the ballpark - their kernels are designed to be usable in userspace for development purposes, but also with the benefit that other operating systems can use them. So any work I contribute, I can take with me for my microkernel project someday, too.
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@jookia@social.tchncs.de @MaddieM4 we've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas
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jesus christ, Linux has had a 100% LLM takeover.
this project is completely cooked.
even after the AI bubble pop, it's not clear how to recover from this level of bullshit from this level of bullshitter.
https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/1099594/be20382b54a9b4cd/
> Linus Torvalds believes that blaming LLMs for the kernel community's problems is wrong, when the problem is LLM users who do not understand how to use them or how the kernel works. A properly trained LLM is a useful tool, but it takes a lot of time to reach that point.
> Torvalds and others repeatedly said low-quality contributions from new developers should receive low priority, and that the community should stop trying to make contribution easy. Many developers said, repeatedly, that trying to mentor those developers is almost always a waste of time; they do not listen.
> There is some concern about companies maintaining private kernels with LLM help, but there does not seem to be much to be done about it.
> Kernel developers should not be required to use LLMs to work in the community, but those who do need to have enough resources available to generate acceptable results.
The requirement to add Assisted-by tags to patches created with LLMs will be removed, but maintainers still want to know about how a patch was created.so how's it going already?
> The development community is struggling to keep up with the flood of security patches, and will continue to for some time. Some of the most urgent fixes may bypass maintainers and go straight to Torvalds. Maintainers were cautioned against telling their employers about vulnerabilities before public disclosure happens.
Really, I'm not out to suck ass as much as Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect.
@davidgerard Possible solution: ban them until people learn how to use them right (and also after all the environment-destroying datacenters have been decommissioned and the spare parts given away to open-source projects and everyone has UBI so artists can live and create without having to serve the copyright juggernaut).
Otherwise, Torvalds's argument kinda reeks of "guns don't kill people -- people kill people".
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@jookia@social.tchncs.de @davidgerard I hold a lot of the same complaints about FOSS culture. It's why I try to pay active attention to alternative social contract models like MOSS or convivial software - with so many of us disgruntled about such similar things, I do think we're going to coalesce on one of these successor models someday.
What I don't engage with, internally, is blanket pessimism. That's just doing Nadella's work for him, and it can genuinely be more selfish than even traditional developer-centered FOSS. I try to be honest about the limitations I've encountered with NetBSD, or the growing pains I expect with #MercuryMicrokernel, because these options are - in many ways - like putting on my own oxygen mask first so I can help others.
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jesus christ, Linux has had a 100% LLM takeover.
this project is completely cooked.
even after the AI bubble pop, it's not clear how to recover from this level of bullshit from this level of bullshitter.
https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/1099594/be20382b54a9b4cd/
> Linus Torvalds believes that blaming LLMs for the kernel community's problems is wrong, when the problem is LLM users who do not understand how to use them or how the kernel works. A properly trained LLM is a useful tool, but it takes a lot of time to reach that point.
> Torvalds and others repeatedly said low-quality contributions from new developers should receive low priority, and that the community should stop trying to make contribution easy. Many developers said, repeatedly, that trying to mentor those developers is almost always a waste of time; they do not listen.
> There is some concern about companies maintaining private kernels with LLM help, but there does not seem to be much to be done about it.
> Kernel developers should not be required to use LLMs to work in the community, but those who do need to have enough resources available to generate acceptable results.
The requirement to add Assisted-by tags to patches created with LLMs will be removed, but maintainers still want to know about how a patch was created.so how's it going already?
> The development community is struggling to keep up with the flood of security patches, and will continue to for some time. Some of the most urgent fixes may bypass maintainers and go straight to Torvalds. Maintainers were cautioned against telling their employers about vulnerabilities before public disclosure happens.
Really, I'm not out to suck ass as much as Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect.
@davidgerard The Slopocalypse is going to result in generational damage. Like, "we forgot how to make concrete for 500 years*" damage.
*yes I know that's not really a thing.
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jesus christ, Linux has had a 100% LLM takeover.
this project is completely cooked.
even after the AI bubble pop, it's not clear how to recover from this level of bullshit from this level of bullshitter.
https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/1099594/be20382b54a9b4cd/
> Linus Torvalds believes that blaming LLMs for the kernel community's problems is wrong, when the problem is LLM users who do not understand how to use them or how the kernel works. A properly trained LLM is a useful tool, but it takes a lot of time to reach that point.
> Torvalds and others repeatedly said low-quality contributions from new developers should receive low priority, and that the community should stop trying to make contribution easy. Many developers said, repeatedly, that trying to mentor those developers is almost always a waste of time; they do not listen.
> There is some concern about companies maintaining private kernels with LLM help, but there does not seem to be much to be done about it.
> Kernel developers should not be required to use LLMs to work in the community, but those who do need to have enough resources available to generate acceptable results.
The requirement to add Assisted-by tags to patches created with LLMs will be removed, but maintainers still want to know about how a patch was created.so how's it going already?
> The development community is struggling to keep up with the flood of security patches, and will continue to for some time. Some of the most urgent fixes may bypass maintainers and go straight to Torvalds. Maintainers were cautioned against telling their employers about vulnerabilities before public disclosure happens.
Really, I'm not out to suck ass as much as Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect.
@davidgerard@circumstances.run
Linus Torvalds believes that blaming LLMs for the kernel community’s problems is wrong, when the problem is LLM users who do not understand how to use them or how the kernel works.
I once told someone “it’s not that I dislike leaf blowers, it’s that I don’t think they should be gas-powered, people are usually using them to export a problem to somebody else instead of solving it, and people are constantly using them for weird things like drying out puddles instead of moving leaves into nice collectible piles.”
My interlocutor responded: “Okay, so you dislike leaf blowers.” And she was right.
I think about that conversation a lot.
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jesus christ, Linux has had a 100% LLM takeover.
this project is completely cooked.
even after the AI bubble pop, it's not clear how to recover from this level of bullshit from this level of bullshitter.
https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/1099594/be20382b54a9b4cd/
> Linus Torvalds believes that blaming LLMs for the kernel community's problems is wrong, when the problem is LLM users who do not understand how to use them or how the kernel works. A properly trained LLM is a useful tool, but it takes a lot of time to reach that point.
> Torvalds and others repeatedly said low-quality contributions from new developers should receive low priority, and that the community should stop trying to make contribution easy. Many developers said, repeatedly, that trying to mentor those developers is almost always a waste of time; they do not listen.
> There is some concern about companies maintaining private kernels with LLM help, but there does not seem to be much to be done about it.
> Kernel developers should not be required to use LLMs to work in the community, but those who do need to have enough resources available to generate acceptable results.
The requirement to add Assisted-by tags to patches created with LLMs will be removed, but maintainers still want to know about how a patch was created.so how's it going already?
> The development community is struggling to keep up with the flood of security patches, and will continue to for some time. Some of the most urgent fixes may bypass maintainers and go straight to Torvalds. Maintainers were cautioned against telling their employers about vulnerabilities before public disclosure happens.
Really, I'm not out to suck ass as much as Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect.
@davidgerard this feels like they finally get to the point where the old boys won't need to onboard new developers, which is a perfect strategy for the next 3-8 years, and afterwards the old devs will literally start dying.
and thus the field for a novel operating system opens.
