Linus Torvalds: “I realize that some people really dislike AI, but this is an area where I'm willing to absolutely put my foot down as the top-level maintainer.
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Linux foundation members are listed companies like Microsoft, Google, IBM, and others. So I am not surprised that he is backing up his employer who pays his salary.
Other day Star Wars creators George Lucas recently endorsed AI in filmmaking, SAYING it is the "future" of cinema and comparing the rejection of AI to preferring a horse and buggy over a car. He argued that AI makes the creative process easier and that embracing progress is inevitable.
@nixCraft sure for people like Lucas having to deal with Actors to get their "vision" realized is annoying. They don't understand that it's the people not their "genius" that makes something of value.
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Linus Torvalds: “I realize that some people really dislike AI, but this is an area where I'm willing to absolutely put my foot down as the top-level maintainer.
Linux is not one of those anti-AI projects, and if somebody has issues with that, they can do the open-source thing and fork it.
Or just walk away.”
@nixCraft How is that little red FreeBSD daemon looking right now?
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@nixCraft I'm not sure beyond a vague memory that they aren't using it, I'm afraid. Hopefully someone else can provide a link?
@thejessiekirk @nixCraft They have the normal discussion, but AFAIK no final verdict on it.
The GNU project has a stop using LLMs policy right now, which is only temporarily in place, because @rms wants to ask lawyers.
One of the issues of high-quality and therefore useful LLMs is, that they memorize code instead of creating it. That's why they are good. The training material however needs to be compatible with the desired license. The GNU project is likely more compatible than the average user.
Another issue is SaaS. Some models are open-weight and can be run by anyone who buys enough RAM and AI accelerators. That is ok for the GNU project, but others aren't, which isn't ok.
There are usages which don't conflict with the goals of a free software project, e.g. use LLMs to teach you about APIs. And there are usages which do conflict, especially creating lots of code where the copyright situation is difficult. Finding bugs is also a usage that can be annoying, but using those findings and fixing the bugs the old-fashioned way doesn't cause problems.
Furthermore: there are different legal systems. LLM output could be fair use in the USA, but a copyright violation in the EU, where clearly distinctive new usage is not covered by existing licenses, even broad ones, and there's no fair use doctrine. This is all not settled.
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@nixCraft I'm not sure beyond a vague memory that they aren't using it, I'm afraid. Hopefully someone else can provide a link?
@thejessiekirk @nixCraft They have no org-wide policy, the projects are supposed to handle it themselves. Krita bans GenAI, while other projects like KDE Connect already started integrating slop code.
I was really disappointed to find out. There is one large forum thread in the KDE forum about it, but nothing more.
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Linux foundation members are listed companies like Microsoft, Google, IBM, and others. So I am not surprised that he is backing up his employer who pays his salary.
Other day Star Wars creators George Lucas recently endorsed AI in filmmaking, SAYING it is the "future" of cinema and comparing the rejection of AI to preferring a horse and buggy over a car. He argued that AI makes the creative process easier and that embracing progress is inevitable.
@nixCraft Torvalds is right and Lucas is wrong.
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Linus Torvalds: “I realize that some people really dislike AI, but this is an area where I'm willing to absolutely put my foot down as the top-level maintainer.
Linux is not one of those anti-AI projects, and if somebody has issues with that, they can do the open-source thing and fork it.
Or just walk away.”
@nixCraft I won’t say it was foretold, but Linux Foundation is receiving money from Microslop, Orac-ew and Y-BM and Linus wasn’t against AI when he was talking with Linus from LTT in a video. Not surprised at all by this move.
Also, BSD projects like NetBSD and FreeBSD made anti-AI commits policies to avoid copyright problems and OpenBSD is very critique of it and they started this a few months after AI slop was becoming popular!
Hence my advice : use different OSes to maintain software diversity and to have a backup solution
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Linus Torvalds: “I realize that some people really dislike AI, but this is an area where I'm willing to absolutely put my foot down as the top-level maintainer.
Linux is not one of those anti-AI projects, and if somebody has issues with that, they can do the open-source thing and fork it.
Or just walk away.”
@nixCraft time to buy only european and sustainable @fairphone #fairphone #oneplus
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Linux foundation members are listed companies like Microsoft, Google, IBM, and others. So I am not surprised that he is backing up his employer who pays his salary.
Other day Star Wars creators George Lucas recently endorsed AI in filmmaking, SAYING it is the "future" of cinema and comparing the rejection of AI to preferring a horse and buggy over a car. He argued that AI makes the creative process easier and that embracing progress is inevitable.
@nixCraft The same guy who went so overboard with CGI in Star Wars 1-3 they are unwatchable.
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Linus Torvalds: “I realize that some people really dislike AI, but this is an area where I'm willing to absolutely put my foot down as the top-level maintainer.
Linux is not one of those anti-AI projects, and if somebody has issues with that, they can do the open-source thing and fork it.
Or just walk away.”
@nixCraft
> And no, AI isn't perfect. But Christ, anybody who points to the
problems at AI had better be looking in the mirror and pointing at
themselves at the same time.Which translates to: AI isn’t perfect but if you find any problem with it, it’s your fault, which mean that AI doesn’t have any problems, and it actually perfect.
I don’t know why we keep giving credit to someone who’s clearly so up his own ass that is incapable of spotting the logical fallacies in his own arguments.
The Linux kernel has been resilient towards AI slop for the simple sheer amount of contributions that already has to manage, but if projections are correct they’ll soon be drowning in slop patches. And when they do I’d be curious to see how Linus will justify the “it’s just a tool” line.
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Linus Torvalds: “I realize that some people really dislike AI, but this is an area where I'm willing to absolutely put my foot down as the top-level maintainer.
Linux is not one of those anti-AI projects, and if somebody has issues with that, they can do the open-source thing and fork it.
Or just walk away.”
@nixCraft can't blame an employee for saying job will be done
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I wonder how practical it is to maintain a fork of Linux without any AI generated code.
@futureisfoss @nixCraft
I would NOT want a distro with AI crap in it, that's for sure! -
@thejessiekirk @nixCraft They have no org-wide policy, the projects are supposed to handle it themselves. Krita bans GenAI, while other projects like KDE Connect already started integrating slop code.
I was really disappointed to find out. There is one large forum thread in the KDE forum about it, but nothing more.
@tsrberry @thejessiekirk @nixCraft well shit. I hadn't heard that.
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Linus Torvalds: “I realize that some people really dislike AI, but this is an area where I'm willing to absolutely put my foot down as the top-level maintainer.
Linux is not one of those anti-AI projects, and if somebody has issues with that, they can do the open-source thing and fork it.
Or just walk away.”
@nixCraft I disagree with the personal framing around it, as much as I can disagree about it being a useful creative tool for software development - economics, environmental & social impact issues aside.
He's made very clear arguments of it being a tool like any other tool and he doesn't want to bring in other arguments into the mix. As a maintainer that's his prerogative.
I don't think he's taking this stand because Microsoft or Oracle is paying his salary. Silly thing to say.
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Linus Torvalds: “I realize that some people really dislike AI, but this is an area where I'm willing to absolutely put my foot down as the top-level maintainer.
Linux is not one of those anti-AI projects, and if somebody has issues with that, they can do the open-source thing and fork it.
Or just walk away.”
@nixCraft Theo de Raadt about AI in the OpenBSD project:
https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=177425035627562&w=2
“Lacking Copyright (or similarily a Public Domain declaration by a human), we don't receive sufficient rights grants which would permit us to include it into the aggregate body of source code, without that aggregate body becoming less free than it is now.”
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Linux foundation members are listed companies like Microsoft, Google, IBM, and others. So I am not surprised that he is backing up his employer who pays his salary.
Other day Star Wars creators George Lucas recently endorsed AI in filmmaking, SAYING it is the "future" of cinema and comparing the rejection of AI to preferring a horse and buggy over a car. He argued that AI makes the creative process easier and that embracing progress is inevitable.
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Linux foundation members are listed companies like Microsoft, Google, IBM, and others. So I am not surprised that he is backing up his employer who pays his salary.
Other day Star Wars creators George Lucas recently endorsed AI in filmmaking, SAYING it is the "future" of cinema and comparing the rejection of AI to preferring a horse and buggy over a car. He argued that AI makes the creative process easier and that embracing progress is inevitable.
Nah, I don't think it's because of corporate interests. He's just a jerk and a prick, like all the high-ranking people who work in tech, apparently.
He doesn't sound like someone defending corporation, but rather like a guy who thinks he's smarter than the smartest of the smart and to whom other people's opinions are indistinguishable from white noise.
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Linus Torvalds: “I realize that some people really dislike AI, but this is an area where I'm willing to absolutely put my foot down as the top-level maintainer.
Linux is not one of those anti-AI projects, and if somebody has issues with that, they can do the open-source thing and fork it.
Or just walk away.”
@nixCraft wasnt he dissing AI like. half a year ago?
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Linus Torvalds: “I realize that some people really dislike AI, but this is an area where I'm willing to absolutely put my foot down as the top-level maintainer.
Linux is not one of those anti-AI projects, and if somebody has issues with that, they can do the open-source thing and fork it.
Or just walk away.”
@nixCraft There's a huge difference between basic automation and feeding corporate data monopolies.
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Linus Torvalds: “I realize that some people really dislike AI, but this is an area where I'm willing to absolutely put my foot down as the top-level maintainer.
Linux is not one of those anti-AI projects, and if somebody has issues with that, they can do the open-source thing and fork it.
Or just walk away.”
@nixCraft I think Linus's main points were:
1. AI exists
2. Arguing about it is as pointless as it is tedious. -
Nah, I don't think it's because of corporate interests. He's just a jerk and a prick, like all the high-ranking people who work in tech, apparently.
He doesn't sound like someone defending corporation, but rather like a guy who thinks he's smarter than the smartest of the smart and to whom other people's opinions are indistinguishable from white noise.
