I made an app.https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ch.pocketpc.nearbyglassesNearby Glasses is here to warn you when smart glasses are nearby.
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@mewsleah @yjeanrenaud Of the limited population that downloads the app, they will be turning to that app to discern if someone in their vicinity is wearing electronically enabled surveillance glasses. That’s what the app is able to reveal. Apparently it also senses VR headset signals as well, but regular humans in glasses are not the object or interest point here. Fyi, I am a glasses-wearing person from before my earliest memories. This app is just to point out creeps wearing headsets that can invisibly scan your face and reveal personal information about you. Are you understanding? It’s NOT about eyeglasses. It’s about surveillance-enabled glasses which are otherwise impossible to recognise.
@wendinoakland @yjeanrenaud so we've gone from "any one of these glasses wearing people might be using smart glasses" to "at least one of these glasses wearing people probably is using smart glasses, but we can't tell you what type or give you a visual aid so you know what to steer clear of".
the only thing this app can really do is reassure you that nobody is currently using smart glasses near you. undoubtedly that's a useful thing. but the app doesn't appear to be weighted towards reassurance. maybe it could be redesigned as a canary app, to play to that strength?
a really useful app would be one that targets and disrupts the communications of those smart glasses, rendering them effectively useless. but i'm not sure whether such an app would be legal (which is annoying, as it's the glasses that should be illegal)
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@mewsleah thanks for that link. So, I must confess, I am bit stuck here. I did not put smart glasses into this world in the first place. I am upset by how some people abuse them to abuse others and invade their privacy and rights, to not be filmed without consent or knowing it, for instance. So are many other people. And I read numerous posts of people letting go their old, beloved Ray-Bans for they could be mistaken for Meta's smart glasses. So I would argue, it's big tech again who makes lifes of many more miserable for their own private gain.
I know my app is a tech fix for social problem which technology only enhanced (to a huge extent, fs), but I tried. I think we would be better off if those camera glasses would not exist. And I'm not saying you blame the wrong person. It's me who did that app, though. I am here to learn. Maybe you'd like to write me non-publicly?
@yjeanrenaud i agree with you. these things should absolutely not exist. and one of the worst aspects of their existence is that so many people wear glasses out of necessity, and would never dream of owning smart glasses.
maybe the way to go is to change the emphasis - from "smart glasses possibly detected" to "no smart glasses here!"? and also to try and identify the type of glasses from the communications they're sending, and if possible bring up some visual aid, so people know what to avoid? (i don't know whether that's possible at all)
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@yjeanrenaud@tech.lgbt @mewsleah@meow.social how exactly do you think a phone app is going to detect basic, non-electronic glasses? They're just plastic/metal and some glass, there's no communication standard such as Bluetooth in a pair of glasses.
Not trying to sound rude but this feels like an over-exaggerated response to a disclaimer and could have just been a respectful question.@Starcross @yjeanrenaud you're right; i lost my temper a bit, and i apologise. sorry, Yves.
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@yjeanrenaud new spyware dropped
@fuchsi @yjeanrenaud oh great. another fedi dipsh!t to insta-block
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@wendinoakland @yjeanrenaud so we've gone from "any one of these glasses wearing people might be using smart glasses" to "at least one of these glasses wearing people probably is using smart glasses, but we can't tell you what type or give you a visual aid so you know what to steer clear of".
the only thing this app can really do is reassure you that nobody is currently using smart glasses near you. undoubtedly that's a useful thing. but the app doesn't appear to be weighted towards reassurance. maybe it could be redesigned as a canary app, to play to that strength?
a really useful app would be one that targets and disrupts the communications of those smart glasses, rendering them effectively useless. but i'm not sure whether such an app would be legal (which is annoying, as it's the glasses that should be illegal)
@mewsleah I think I see your concerns. Anyhow, I did not ment to be ableist and want to improve.
Yes, it's a canary app. Do you have suggestions for me how to make this more clearly?Afaiu, technically disturbing BLE and WiFi is not illegal in most jurisdictions. By complying to FCC regulations, devices must not do so but accept any interfering signal. But a smart glasses jammer app is of some other breed
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@Starcross @yjeanrenaud you're right; i lost my temper a bit, and i apologise. sorry, Yves.
@mewsleah that's alright. We are all but humans, at least I suppose. And, nonetheless, anger is valid. Thank you for apologising. I did not take any offence
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I made an app.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ch.pocketpc.nearbyglasses
Nearby Glasses is here to warn you when smart glasses are nearby.I hope it's useful for someone.
The app is open source, free and rather simple
https://github.com/yjeanrenaud/yj_nearbyglassesIt's also downloadable outside the Play Store. iOS port is in the making
@yjeanrenaud isit possible to get this app compiled to recycle old devices running Android 4?
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@mewsleah I have to wear glasses myself. But thank you for pointing this out for me. I am grateful I improve. Will think about how to address that.
Even before this app I was warning folk that normal spectacles wearers risk being targeted / harrassed due to concerns over smart glasses.
I am an engineer who works with a lot of wireless devices, its not trivial tracing 2,4 GHz signals to their actual source (for many reasons), hence why even adtech companies have mostly abandoned tracking beacons in shops etc. Users should be strongly warned of this.
To me this is similar app to Carmen Mobile (hand held ANPR scanner) - where they just ask for "pinky swear" you comply to GDPR (I only use it on my personal vehicle (which has 3D gel plates, to check they are legal) and work fleet cars, but if you are making apps like this you need to consider ethics strongly at all points..
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I made an app.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ch.pocketpc.nearbyglasses
Nearby Glasses is here to warn you when smart glasses are nearby.I hope it's useful for someone.
The app is open source, free and rather simple
https://github.com/yjeanrenaud/yj_nearbyglassesIt's also downloadable outside the Play Store. iOS port is in the making
@yjeanrenaud Question, is it known if the BLE identification tag on the glasses can be modified? I wonder if truly dedicated individuals will go to that length to both hide that they're recording, AND hide that they're smart glasses.
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Even before this app I was warning folk that normal spectacles wearers risk being targeted / harrassed due to concerns over smart glasses.
I am an engineer who works with a lot of wireless devices, its not trivial tracing 2,4 GHz signals to their actual source (for many reasons), hence why even adtech companies have mostly abandoned tracking beacons in shops etc. Users should be strongly warned of this.
To me this is similar app to Carmen Mobile (hand held ANPR scanner) - where they just ask for "pinky swear" you comply to GDPR (I only use it on my personal vehicle (which has 3D gel plates, to check they are legal) and work fleet cars, but if you are making apps like this you need to consider ethics strongly at all points..
@vfrmedia thanks. Do you have suggestions for me?
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@yjeanrenaud Question, is it known if the BLE identification tag on the glasses can be modified? I wonder if truly dedicated individuals will go to that length to both hide that they're recording, AND hide that they're smart glasses.
@jessienab well, technically, yes. I don't know how the companion apps work or what signature they rely on etc. In the end, truly dedicated individuals may also go for the classic pinhole cameras instead. No wireless signal to detect at all
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@yjeanrenaud isit possible to get this app compiled to recycle old devices running Android 4?
@Laberpferd android 4? I will look into that. Afaik the ble framework was only introduced in Android 8, though
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@mewsleah I think I see your concerns. Anyhow, I did not ment to be ableist and want to improve.
Yes, it's a canary app. Do you have suggestions for me how to make this more clearly?Afaiu, technically disturbing BLE and WiFi is not illegal in most jurisdictions. By complying to FCC regulations, devices must not do so but accept any interfering signal. But a smart glasses jammer app is of some other breed
@yjeanrenaud for a canary app, i think the emphasis has to be on "no signals detected" and happy symbolism - maybe a dancing canary?
- and that has to be something that's visible at a glance; if a signal is detected, flip the notification to "be cautious: there may be smart glasses in the vicinity" (maybe a canary shielding its face with its wing... if i had the talent, i'd contribute icons)maybe also a list of the known kinds of smart glasses, with photos, in a helpfile - or a wiki? won't help with Ray-Bans et al which look identical to the non-smart variants, of course
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@vfrmedia thanks. Do you have suggestions for me?
@yjeanrenaud make warnings more prominent on the app and its associated webpages, maybe a reminder that in many countries (pretty much all of Europe) it can be a potential criminal offence to harrass someone because you *think* they are wearing a covert surveillance device, which may even be a greater offence than actually using such a device.
Its a genuinely complex legal situation and laws vary across countries - for instance in Britain its perfectly legal to wear bodycam, hidden microphones and all sorts of surveillance kit *provided* you aren't using the information gathered for harassment of others (for instance there's loads of middle aged women wearing discreet bodycams when dog walking due to paranoia over XL bullies and other aggressive breeds)
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@yjeanrenaud i agree with you. these things should absolutely not exist. and one of the worst aspects of their existence is that so many people wear glasses out of necessity, and would never dream of owning smart glasses.
maybe the way to go is to change the emphasis - from "smart glasses possibly detected" to "no smart glasses here!"? and also to try and identify the type of glasses from the communications they're sending, and if possible bring up some visual aid, so people know what to avoid? (i don't know whether that's possible at all)
@mewsleah thanks, I will look into that.
And to make things worse about that tech, there are reasonable use cases for smart glasses with cameras as well. E.g. as a reading aid or navigator for visually impaired people beyond prescription glasses. There might even be legitimate recording purposes I can't think of right now. But that's not where Meta focusses their market share onto, I'm afraid. It's merely bound to be abused.
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I made an app.
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ch.pocketpc.nearbyglasses
Nearby Glasses is here to warn you when smart glasses are nearby.I hope it's useful for someone.
The app is open source, free and rather simple
https://github.com/yjeanrenaud/yj_nearbyglassesIt's also downloadable outside the Play Store. iOS port is in the making
@yjeanrenaud Feel like this is the sort of thing that shouldn't be released with false positives. Maybe this is the sort of thing that shouldn't be released at all given it's gonna be abused and inevitably used to harass people. Tech like this has massive social implications. On the one hand, fuck other people's spyware, but I'm not sure making ones own spyware with false positives is the winning move.
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@yjeanrenaud Feel like this is the sort of thing that shouldn't be released with false positives. Maybe this is the sort of thing that shouldn't be released at all given it's gonna be abused and inevitably used to harass people. Tech like this has massive social implications. On the one hand, fuck other people's spyware, but I'm not sure making ones own spyware with false positives is the winning move.
@zyd you'd consider this spyware?
But thanks for your feedback, too. I will consider this -
@yjeanrenaud make warnings more prominent on the app and its associated webpages, maybe a reminder that in many countries (pretty much all of Europe) it can be a potential criminal offence to harrass someone because you *think* they are wearing a covert surveillance device, which may even be a greater offence than actually using such a device.
Its a genuinely complex legal situation and laws vary across countries - for instance in Britain its perfectly legal to wear bodycam, hidden microphones and all sorts of surveillance kit *provided* you aren't using the information gathered for harassment of others (for instance there's loads of middle aged women wearing discreet bodycams when dog walking due to paranoia over XL bullies and other aggressive breeds)
@vfrmedia thank you
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@yjeanrenaud for a canary app, i think the emphasis has to be on "no signals detected" and happy symbolism - maybe a dancing canary?
- and that has to be something that's visible at a glance; if a signal is detected, flip the notification to "be cautious: there may be smart glasses in the vicinity" (maybe a canary shielding its face with its wing... if i had the talent, i'd contribute icons)maybe also a list of the known kinds of smart glasses, with photos, in a helpfile - or a wiki? won't help with Ray-Bans et al which look identical to the non-smart variants, of course
@mewsleah good point. Maybe it's also not good to give visual directions. It's more like "be aware, maybe mask up or leave, ask others for help, shield each other"
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@zyd you'd consider this spyware?
But thanks for your feedback, too. I will consider this@yjeanrenaud I'm not sure to be honest. It does feel like spyware in a kind of counter-spyware way. Military tech often uses Bluetooth detection to determine the location of targets to kill.
Read this article to get perspective on the social implications of your software, it's a really good and fun read despite the serious topic: https://calebhearth.com/dont-get-distracted
