I have been warning about the term "digital sovereignty" and how it is right-wing coded and probably can't be salvaged for non-right-wing politics.
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@tante I agree! Digital independence is a better term imho
@thanius @tante Though it's always the question who is independent from who. The way it's coded e.g. in the US-american independence day, it marked a shift from colony to sovereign oppressors and a free country for white men to genocide the indigenous people and legal slavery. As such, using independence as a word seems to me quite inconsiderate towards BIPoC.
But maybe it describes quite well what is happening, if it's a white movement where people want to escape other white people's power to use the means of oppression themselves.
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@tante I've, too, been concerned about "sovereignty" being too susceptible to nationalist capture. (Which is probably also why it appeals to certain parties despite often funding more progressive projects?)
I'm also in favor of a different term for the concept that is less so.
However, I also think that it sucks that we yield terms (which actually describes exactly what's intended) to the right-wing national so easily and then are forced to evade
@larsmb I agree when it comes to terms that are useful/good (think Freedom). I'm not willing to fight for "sovereignty"
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@tante i totally understand the sentiment but tactically as you suggest it is working wonders, look at what the
government are doing ( #linux ). I see a lot of people in higher places finally taking the #orangethreat seriously and making big moves very fast. The #EU is also all over that language & in the context of actual invasion threats ( #greenland ) & "simple" US tech dependency of public IT, it makes sense. Funnily enough, it does NOT resonate with the Brits. Maybe no land invasion traumaTotally agree.
Besides, it's IMO overdue to *reclaim* the word sovereignty as it's, an instantly easily understood term across the EU.
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I have been warning about the term "digital sovereignty" and how it is right-wing coded and probably can't be salvaged for non-right-wing politics.
The German fascist party AfD now created a European foundation to push their fascist politics further. The name: "Sovereignty Foundation".
Even though tactically it might feel like it makes sense to use the term to get funding, you are integrating right wing politics into your thinking and speaking.
@tante >The German fascist party AfD -
@jwildeboer There is not one concept that the German language can not make sound very "gestelzt"
And I agree: Using more terms that conservative Germany feels icky with is probably a good thing.@tante
Digitale Autonome, was? 🧐 Verfassungsschutz, Hubschraubereinsatz!!!1
@jwildeboer -
@tante
Digitale Autonome, was? 🧐 Verfassungsschutz, Hubschraubereinsatz!!!1
@jwildeboer@menos @tante Foyer des Arts, 1982, Hubschraubereinsatz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pAr1IMiP6A&list=RD2pAr1IMiP6A&start_radio=1 -
I have been warning about the term "digital sovereignty" and how it is right-wing coded and probably can't be salvaged for non-right-wing politics.
The German fascist party AfD now created a European foundation to push their fascist politics further. The name: "Sovereignty Foundation".
Even though tactically it might feel like it makes sense to use the term to get funding, you are integrating right wing politics into your thinking and speaking.
@tante
See also Brexit in UK claimed to be about sovereignty, but was Russian funded and more about money laundering.I think it depends on context, real motive and who is using the word.
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@larsmb @datenwolf @kejster @jwildeboer @tante I would like to continue to use the word sovereign and within the first 2min of every presentation mention that "sovereign" is not "national" (copied this from @sovtechfund talks I heard). Hope it's clear then.
@jzakotnik From an italian friend "never say sovereign here. It will immediately put you in the wrong, far-right corner" I will also continue to use "sovereign" for the top-down approach. But digital autonomy for the bottom-up way. That's a nice and helpful distinction for me. @larsmb @datenwolf @kejster @tante @sovtechfund
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@jwildeboer that one is better, yes. I also like "digital capacity to act" or "digital agency"
@tante @jwildeboer digital liberty? (But specifically not digital freedom, as that brings other slippery slopes).
Liberty is often associated with being "free" from coercion and external forces, so in a way to be able to "act autonomously" as you mentioned.
It also has the momentum of many OSS projects with "libre" in their name. -
I have been warning about the term "digital sovereignty" and how it is right-wing coded and probably can't be salvaged for non-right-wing politics.
The German fascist party AfD now created a European foundation to push their fascist politics further. The name: "Sovereignty Foundation".
Even though tactically it might feel like it makes sense to use the term to get funding, you are integrating right wing politics into your thinking and speaking.
@tante Hört doch Mal endlich alle auf vor diesem verfickten rechten Nazipack zu kuschen. Über wie viele Begriffe und Symbole etc. wollt ihr noch diskutieren und nach angeblich besseren oder so viel intelligenteren Ausdrücken suchen, statt dagegen zu halten. Merkt ihr nicht welches Signal ihr damit sendet und damit ständig diese perfide und sehr bewusste Taktik dieser drecks Bullies, immer und immer wieder bestätigt.
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I have been warning about the term "digital sovereignty" and how it is right-wing coded and probably can't be salvaged for non-right-wing politics.
The German fascist party AfD now created a European foundation to push their fascist politics further. The name: "Sovereignty Foundation".
Even though tactically it might feel like it makes sense to use the term to get funding, you are integrating right wing politics into your thinking and speaking.
@tante That's funny. Most of the people pushing digital identity and digital sovereignty have far-left politics.
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@tante I am slowly moving towards saying digital autonomy instead. Which is more applicable than sovereignty, as that term is more geared towards states/governments, whereas autonomy applies to people, groups, companies and authorities.
I go for Digital Independence myself.
Independence has the right vibe, at least for (US) Americans, and avoids the Sovereignty bro coding.
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I have been warning about the term "digital sovereignty" and how it is right-wing coded and probably can't be salvaged for non-right-wing politics.
The German fascist party AfD now created a European foundation to push their fascist politics further. The name: "Sovereignty Foundation".
Even though tactically it might feel like it makes sense to use the term to get funding, you are integrating right wing politics into your thinking and speaking.
@tante kill yourself, jew -
@jwildeboer that one is better, yes. I also like "digital capacity to act" or "digital agency"
@tante yeah "digital agency" is where i've landed to describe what seems important there -- focusing on each being's ability to choose, understand, and shape their own digital presence (or lack thereof)
agree "digital sovereignty" has always seemed too nationalistic -- is good to work to disentangle from exploitative american tech structures, but "sovereignty" kinda gestures toward "...so we can build our own exploitative tech structures!"
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I have been warning about the term "digital sovereignty" and how it is right-wing coded and probably can't be salvaged for non-right-wing politics.
The German fascist party AfD now created a European foundation to push their fascist politics further. The name: "Sovereignty Foundation".
Even though tactically it might feel like it makes sense to use the term to get funding, you are integrating right wing politics into your thinking and speaking.
@tante I've always been suspicious of the term "sovereignty". It was one of the main justifications for Brexit. And it is clearly a weaselword when it comes to the digital domain.
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@tante I've always been suspicious of the term "sovereignty". It was one of the main justifications for Brexit. And it is clearly a weaselword when it comes to the digital domain.
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I have been warning about the term "digital sovereignty" and how it is right-wing coded and probably can't be salvaged for non-right-wing politics.
The German fascist party AfD now created a European foundation to push their fascist politics further. The name: "Sovereignty Foundation".
Even though tactically it might feel like it makes sense to use the term to get funding, you are integrating right wing politics into your thinking and speaking.
@tante I strongly oppose letting the right wing “own” a word like that. This term has not been invented by the right wing and we should fight to keep it or just let them use it we don’t speak to the same people anyway…
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I have been warning about the term "digital sovereignty" and how it is right-wing coded and probably can't be salvaged for non-right-wing politics.
The German fascist party AfD now created a European foundation to push their fascist politics further. The name: "Sovereignty Foundation".
Even though tactically it might feel like it makes sense to use the term to get funding, you are integrating right wing politics into your thinking and speaking.
@tante It *is* a pretty important term in political science. Maybe we shouldn't just stop using every word those dumbwits are using? We will run out of words at some point.
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I have been warning about the term "digital sovereignty" and how it is right-wing coded and probably can't be salvaged for non-right-wing politics.
The German fascist party AfD now created a European foundation to push their fascist politics further. The name: "Sovereignty Foundation".
Even though tactically it might feel like it makes sense to use the term to get funding, you are integrating right wing politics into your thinking and speaking.
@tante "Digital independence" is a better term(as are several others already mentioned). But when I read "digital sovereignty", I tend to think of it as individuals, organizations, or countries technologically "going their own way" rather than be beholden to someone else.
ditching Microsoft for Linux, and Linux distributions ditching Red Hat software(systemd, GNOME) come to mind as examples of that.
