"A man free of patriarchy is a man who has found not only every woman's humanity, but one who has at last discovered his own.
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"A man free of patriarchy is a man who has found not only every woman's humanity, but one who has at last discovered his own. The actual path to liberation for lonely men is feminism—because pursuing an identity based on dominating others is self-isolating."
@JuliusGoat good that this post gets traction, even better coz a man is posting and writing that. Maybe now some of men will listen
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"A man free of patriarchy is a man who has found not only every woman's humanity, but one who has at last discovered his own. The actual path to liberation for lonely men is feminism—because pursuing an identity based on dominating others is self-isolating."
"it cast masculinity as essentially dominating and femininity as essentially dominated. It also created an expectation that every man was owed at least one female... And I say man and female because I notice that this is the terminology used by men who still seem to believe they are owed at least one female. A man is a person. A female is a category. People will tell you things without knowing it, if you know how to listen."
- @JuliusGoat -
"it cast masculinity as essentially dominating and femininity as essentially dominated. It also created an expectation that every man was owed at least one female... And I say man and female because I notice that this is the terminology used by men who still seem to believe they are owed at least one female. A man is a person. A female is a category. People will tell you things without knowing it, if you know how to listen."
- @JuliusGoat"Then there came along this notion that women were not property of men, but were actually human beings, just like men, with all the same qualities and abilities, and therefore, because of the plain fact of their humanity, they were deserving of all the same rights and opportunities.
The system that holds that women are property of men is called patriarchy.
The system that holds that women are human beings is called feminism."
- @JuliusGoat -
"Then there came along this notion that women were not property of men, but were actually human beings, just like men, with all the same qualities and abilities, and therefore, because of the plain fact of their humanity, they were deserving of all the same rights and opportunities.
The system that holds that women are property of men is called patriarchy.
The system that holds that women are human beings is called feminism."
- @JuliusGoat"Feminism completely & directly challenged patriarchy's authority and the underpinnings of its institutions and narratives, and this made people who depended upon patriarchy for fortune and identity very upset and enraged and violent, and all this rage was usually presented as a problem... and that it was up to society to solve that problem on behalf of men, mostly by making women not insist on being human beings so much."
https://www.the-reframe.com/fix-your-hearts-or-die/ -
@helmort I absolutely agree with you!
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"A man free of patriarchy is a man who has found not only every woman's humanity, but one who has at last discovered his own. The actual path to liberation for lonely men is feminism—because pursuing an identity based on dominating others is self-isolating."
RE: https://mastodon.social/@JuliusGoat/116125352774169273
Self-improvement is also about unlearning and I think that lies at the root of "anti-woke" culture.
It's hard enough to learn what you need for life and apply it, never mind be told, after maybe decades, that's not right any more and you need to "unlearn" some behaviour.
In the past, I definitely held beliefs that would now be considered racist, mysoginist, ableist. But I learned they were wrong.
I don't mean someone told me they were wrong and I accepted it. I actually learned.
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RE: https://mastodon.social/@JuliusGoat/116125352774169273
Self-improvement is also about unlearning and I think that lies at the root of "anti-woke" culture.
It's hard enough to learn what you need for life and apply it, never mind be told, after maybe decades, that's not right any more and you need to "unlearn" some behaviour.
In the past, I definitely held beliefs that would now be considered racist, mysoginist, ableist. But I learned they were wrong.
I don't mean someone told me they were wrong and I accepted it. I actually learned.
I think, as a society, we're dealing with a bunch of middle-aged people who accepted that these things were wrong but never understood why and just went along with it. Hence they use terms like "virtue signalling" and "political correctness", thinking it was just something done for appearances.
The fact that some of their peers still believe that these things are wrong feels like a rug pull to them - they assumed everyone was pretending.
They feel like nobody told them.
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"A man free of patriarchy is a man who has found not only every woman's humanity, but one who has at last discovered his own. The actual path to liberation for lonely men is feminism—because pursuing an identity based on dominating others is self-isolating."
@JuliusGoat That is a great point. I am a man and a feminist as it make me a better person and makes my society much better
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RE: https://mastodon.social/@JuliusGoat/116125352774169273
Self-improvement is also about unlearning and I think that lies at the root of "anti-woke" culture.
It's hard enough to learn what you need for life and apply it, never mind be told, after maybe decades, that's not right any more and you need to "unlearn" some behaviour.
In the past, I definitely held beliefs that would now be considered racist, mysoginist, ableist. But I learned they were wrong.
I don't mean someone told me they were wrong and I accepted it. I actually learned.
I think this is also at the root of why people don't like immigrants. They don't want to learn how to accomodate their beliefs and practices.
And maybe that is a fair complaint EXCEPT it's coming from people who go abroad and expected to be served in English and eat egg and chips.
You can't have it both ways.
Of course, they also completely over-inflate the supposed expectations of them, hence all this bollocks about not mentioning bacon around Muslims.
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"A man free of patriarchy is a man who has found not only every woman's humanity, but one who has at last discovered his own. The actual path to liberation for lonely men is feminism—because pursuing an identity based on dominating others is self-isolating."
These young men are willing to change themselves to gain the approval of patriarchal misogynistic men, but are un-willing to change themselves to gain the approval of women.
Then these young men blame women for not being attracted to them, even though the men have done *nothing* to make themselves attractive to women.
These young men have *chosen* to sabotage themselves, to make themselves more appealing to misogynistic men than to women.
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@helmort @JuliusGoat I think cheap cliche stereotypes are cute, but not serious critiques.
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"A man free of patriarchy is a man who has found not only every woman's humanity, but one who has at last discovered his own. The actual path to liberation for lonely men is feminism—because pursuing an identity based on dominating others is self-isolating."
@JuliusGoat I enjoyed the article, and I broadly agree with the tone most media has towards the 'male loneliness epidemic'.
However, I think this misses a key intersectional reading of the situation men find themselves in. Most men today (similarly to women) are alienated from society (a feeling they sometimes mistake for loneliness) because at this point, our economic structure makes the vast majority of society feel like they have no agency in their lives.
I want to be honest, I do deradicalisation work with men in my local community and ones I find online, and say that this article probably won't resonate with people that aren't already feminists. Currently, there's no space for men in feminism (maybe there shouldn't ever be, idk).
We currently live in a political system that gives power to people that are most voted (in Presidential, Parliamentary, local elections). If you want actual policy changes, you must have a popular political platform. This involves making policy directly aimed at men, that a majority of men will support and want to vote for. Saying "vote for me because feminism is good" is not enough (and it shouldn't lol, aka rainbow capitalism).
The problem is that some feminists see this as 'centering men', and actively attack politicians that even suggest so (literally European initiative My Voice My Choice had to beg their followers to stop brigading center-right politicians because the organisation was actively courting and succeeding in getting them to vote in favour of MVMC).
I don't say this to be edgy, the freedoms of my female friends, family members is at stake, because the alternative political strategy does 'center men' in an attempt to garner their votes and actually push policy that equates to mandated child rearing (in order to keep capitalism alive and deliver on the no migrants policy).
Class consciousness and leftist politics ARE popular with men (see Hasan's gender split if you don't believe me), we need to lean into this angle if we want feminism to be policy, not just vibes and legal precedents that can be rolled back.
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"A man free of patriarchy is a man who has found not only every woman's humanity, but one who has at last discovered his own. The actual path to liberation for lonely men is feminism—because pursuing an identity based on dominating others is self-isolating."
@JuliusGoat I'm happy that your conclusions that could help society are still the same ones that feminists had in the 1960s and 1970s.
So this manosphere theory of "pass on their genes" could be perhaps rewritten: "Pass on education. Pass on what feminists of the first generations already knew, fought for, and achieved in many countries before the big slashback."
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@JuliusGoat I enjoyed the article, and I broadly agree with the tone most media has towards the 'male loneliness epidemic'.
However, I think this misses a key intersectional reading of the situation men find themselves in. Most men today (similarly to women) are alienated from society (a feeling they sometimes mistake for loneliness) because at this point, our economic structure makes the vast majority of society feel like they have no agency in their lives.
I want to be honest, I do deradicalisation work with men in my local community and ones I find online, and say that this article probably won't resonate with people that aren't already feminists. Currently, there's no space for men in feminism (maybe there shouldn't ever be, idk).
We currently live in a political system that gives power to people that are most voted (in Presidential, Parliamentary, local elections). If you want actual policy changes, you must have a popular political platform. This involves making policy directly aimed at men, that a majority of men will support and want to vote for. Saying "vote for me because feminism is good" is not enough (and it shouldn't lol, aka rainbow capitalism).
The problem is that some feminists see this as 'centering men', and actively attack politicians that even suggest so (literally European initiative My Voice My Choice had to beg their followers to stop brigading center-right politicians because the organisation was actively courting and succeeding in getting them to vote in favour of MVMC).
I don't say this to be edgy, the freedoms of my female friends, family members is at stake, because the alternative political strategy does 'center men' in an attempt to garner their votes and actually push policy that equates to mandated child rearing (in order to keep capitalism alive and deliver on the no migrants policy).
Class consciousness and leftist politics ARE popular with men (see Hasan's gender split if you don't believe me), we need to lean into this angle if we want feminism to be policy, not just vibes and legal precedents that can be rolled back.
@budududuroiu @JuliusGoat I believe you're missing the forest for the trees; the point is not those who would be here or any who would listen to a woman politician, the point is taking those who are really far on their views as to see women as less human and teach them to have empathy and to be proper human beings.
As someone who knows some individuals like those I described, I don't even believe it can be done cause they are comfortable in their stupid, sexist universe.
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These young men are willing to change themselves to gain the approval of patriarchal misogynistic men, but are un-willing to change themselves to gain the approval of women.
Then these young men blame women for not being attracted to them, even though the men have done *nothing* to make themselves attractive to women.
These young men have *chosen* to sabotage themselves, to make themselves more appealing to misogynistic men than to women.
@ZhiZhu @JuliusGoat It's a good point: Men still (collectively) listen more to men than women…And it slows everything down because they also fall for related bullshit (crypto, AI, fossil fuels, the "need" for militarism, etc- the list is long )
People (I might possibly be one of those people at times) sarcastically refer to these guys who habitually and continually stunt their own humanity as dudes who waste their lives trying to please abusive daddies, but there's a lot of truth to it.
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"A man free of patriarchy is a man who has found not only every woman's humanity, but one who has at last discovered his own. The actual path to liberation for lonely men is feminism—because pursuing an identity based on dominating others is self-isolating."
@JuliusGoat You mention eugenics in the article. I find it interesting that I'm pretty sure you're right that the "solution" to the "male loneliness epidemic" is to force women to marry these men, because I wonder if one could argue it also fitting eugenicist logic that those men deliberately be left to supposedly die if they can't adapt to women being their peers.
To be clear, I still agree with the conclusion. Feminism is in the best interest of the men who scoff at it and declare themselves incels. I just wonder if I would also be a shitty person if I were to turn to the men who refuse their own self interest because they dare become actually egalitarian and even slightly empathetic and say to them, "if you can't keep up, maybe it's good that you die." I'd be lying if I said it wasn't tempting, given the ever increasing stakes for bringing men closer than arm's length, and even that being dangerous some times.
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"A man free of patriarchy is a man who has found not only every woman's humanity, but one who has at last discovered his own. The actual path to liberation for lonely men is feminism—because pursuing an identity based on dominating others is self-isolating."
@JuliusGoat in short, women should not accept criticism from those who need exorcisms #easy
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"A man free of patriarchy is a man who has found not only every woman's humanity, but one who has at last discovered his own. The actual path to liberation for lonely men is feminism—because pursuing an identity based on dominating others is self-isolating."
Ever since the 1970s when I saw high school boys playing slaughter ball* I have been convinced we need men's liberation. I've caught a lot of flak over the years for saying that, but you make the argument nicely. We were going that way in the 1970s, but then came the 1980s, and you know how that went. Reagan was the origin of so much that went wrong.
