We now note that that we do not waive our attribution requirements for Spritely Goblins, which are present in Apache v2 (and for that matter, CC BY, CC BY-SA, and most FOSS licenses) https://codeberg.org/spritely/goblins/pulls/998/files
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Btw I have heard at least one prominent FOSS person (I'm choosing to not fill their notifications here by identifying them) that nobody cares about attribution requirements (and particularly not enforcing them). But to me, attribution is what I care about MORE than any other licensing requirements, more than copyleft "share-alike" style provisions, etc.
If you feel similarly, it would be good to hear on this thread. Perhaps even copying a similar notice into your project is a good idea.
depends a bit on the goal of the FOSS as to how important copy-left, licensing, etc. might be but attribution is the crucial underpinning regardless of which licensing you do or don't do. who did the work is vital to know.
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We are more in agreement than you realize:
I guess now is a good as time as any to “come out”: I'm using #Anthropic's #Claude on a regular basis to help me figure out what types of policies we should set for reasonable & ethical use of #LLMGenAI in #FOSS, & also to actually improve FOSS codebases.
I believe it is reasonable to use proprietary technologies as long as our eyes remain on the prize of defeating those technologies.
@cwebber, I suspect, doesn't agree.
@bkuhn @copiesofcopies @cwebber I'm sure the fascist American companies write great policies!
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We are more in agreement than you realize:
I guess now is a good as time as any to “come out”: I'm using #Anthropic's #Claude on a regular basis to help me figure out what types of policies we should set for reasonable & ethical use of #LLMGenAI in #FOSS, & also to actually improve FOSS codebases.
I believe it is reasonable to use proprietary technologies as long as our eyes remain on the prize of defeating those technologies.
@cwebber, I suspect, doesn't agree.
@bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org @copiesofcopies@social.coop @cwebber@social.coop i have a question.
why would you expect that it would do anything other than bias you towards allowing it?
the corporate interests of those who trained the LLM are in favor of this outcome. you cannot expect it to to do anything but lead you in this direction, regardless of whether it is correct.
by deciding to allow it to help you, you have already forfeited making the decision. -
We are more in agreement than you realize:
I guess now is a good as time as any to “come out”: I'm using #Anthropic's #Claude on a regular basis to help me figure out what types of policies we should set for reasonable & ethical use of #LLMGenAI in #FOSS, & also to actually improve FOSS codebases.
I believe it is reasonable to use proprietary technologies as long as our eyes remain on the prize of defeating those technologies.
@cwebber, I suspect, doesn't agree.
@bkuhn @copiesofcopies @cwebber bruh.
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@bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org @copiesofcopies@social.coop @cwebber@social.coop i have a question.
why would you expect that it would do anything other than bias you towards allowing it?
the corporate interests of those who trained the LLM are in favor of this outcome. you cannot expect it to to do anything but lead you in this direction, regardless of whether it is correct.
by deciding to allow it to help you, you have already forfeited making the decision.@bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org @copiesofcopies@social.coop @cwebber@social.coop Claude is a machine that makes the average decision.
if the "average decision" is good enough for you, then whatever, i guess.
but isn't the Software Freedom Conservancy a bit more important than that? isn't part of the point not to just blindly do the same thing everyone else is doing? -
@bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org @copiesofcopies@social.coop @cwebber@social.coop Claude is a machine that makes the average decision.
if the "average decision" is good enough for you, then whatever, i guess.
but isn't the Software Freedom Conservancy a bit more important than that? isn't part of the point not to just blindly do the same thing everyone else is doing?@bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org @copiesofcopies@social.coop @cwebber@social.coop
i do not have software freedom in a world where anyone with an LLM can take my software from me and use it without my permission by laundering it through a bit of matrix math, so that they no longer have to obey the attribution requirements, or anything else they decide they don't like, such as the entire contents of the GPL.
your decision here does not make me feel like the Software Freedom Conservancy is fighting for my software freedom. -
@bkuhn @copiesofcopies
I think we should be pushing back on these things. I'm worried and dissappointed that FOSS leadership isn't. I'm really worried we might never recover from the damage that's already been done.@cwebber @bkuhn @copiesofcopies The lure of using GenAI regularly and thus actively helping the destruction of the commons (among other harms), is especially strong when one finds a use case which is genuinely convenient or time-saving. Just because it saves me time doesn’t mean that it magically becomes harmless; that’s merely me rationalizing my use.
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@bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org @copiesofcopies@social.coop @cwebber@social.coop
i do not have software freedom in a world where anyone with an LLM can take my software from me and use it without my permission by laundering it through a bit of matrix math, so that they no longer have to obey the attribution requirements, or anything else they decide they don't like, such as the entire contents of the GPL.
your decision here does not make me feel like the Software Freedom Conservancy is fighting for my software freedom.@bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org @copiesofcopies@social.coop @cwebber@social.coop like, i'm sorry if this fact makes you uncomfortable, but as a SFC board member, every time you ask Claude about your policy, you have to remember not only that you aren't talking to a person, but also that you are not talking to your computer, either. you are talking to Anthropic.
so, what you are doing is allowing Anthropic, the corporation, into the room, and giving them a share of your seat on the board, and a leading voice, in the only policy that could reject their interests, by outsourcing your policy decisions to them.
i do not trust Anthropic to forward the interests of the SFC.
i also do not trust anyone who lets a corporation like Anthropic make decisions for them on behalf of such an organization. -
@bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org @copiesofcopies@social.coop @cwebber@social.coop like, i'm sorry if this fact makes you uncomfortable, but as a SFC board member, every time you ask Claude about your policy, you have to remember not only that you aren't talking to a person, but also that you are not talking to your computer, either. you are talking to Anthropic.
so, what you are doing is allowing Anthropic, the corporation, into the room, and giving them a share of your seat on the board, and a leading voice, in the only policy that could reject their interests, by outsourcing your policy decisions to them.
i do not trust Anthropic to forward the interests of the SFC.
i also do not trust anyone who lets a corporation like Anthropic make decisions for them on behalf of such an organization.@bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org @copiesofcopies@social.coop @cwebber@social.coop
as a thought experiment, consider whether you would change your behavior if it turned out that every request to Anthropic was outsourced to a "call center" somewhere halfway across the globe, where a bunch of people were trained by Anthropic to always provide similar responses and pretend that they are an AI. would you still be so comfortable with using this?
(leave aside the fact that this sort of thing actually sometimes happens in real life, with real "AI" deployments) -
@bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org @copiesofcopies@social.coop @cwebber@social.coop
as a thought experiment, consider whether you would change your behavior if it turned out that every request to Anthropic was outsourced to a "call center" somewhere halfway across the globe, where a bunch of people were trained by Anthropic to always provide similar responses and pretend that they are an AI. would you still be so comfortable with using this?
(leave aside the fact that this sort of thing actually sometimes happens in real life, with real "AI" deployments)@bkuhn@fedi.copyleft.org @copiesofcopies@social.coop @cwebber@social.coop this isn't a "think of the poor people", by the way. feel free to imagine that they are well-compensated and happy with their jobs, because that still doesn't get rid of the issue here. -
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