Live testing of remote categories
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wrote on 27. mar. 2025, 05.12 sidst redigeret af
@julian not sure. Cc’ing @jaonculverhouse
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@julian @activitypub Makes sense. Were NodeBB's own federated categories represented as users prior to this change? Do you assume that all groups are FEP-1b12 groups?
There was an interesting discussion on SocialHub on identifying FEP-1b12 groups and nutomic made a compelling argument that we should just assume thatGroupsupports FEP-1b12 if there is no other indicator:https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/fep-1b12-group-federation/2724/96
wrote on 30. mar. 2025, 04.30 sidst redigeret af@silverpill@mitra.social I read back a bit to get a fuller context (not all the way, though, there’s a damn lot of bikeshedding in that topic.)
Basically Nutomic is advocating against multi typing because it is poorly supported (true), and because Lemmy has first-mover advantage (also true.)
Requiring a multitype or boolean flag for 1b12 would be quite difficult to do because you’ll never have 100% adoption and end up needing backwards compatibility with 1b12-classic anyway — cat’s already out of the bag.
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A activitypub@community.nodebb.org shared this topic on 30. mar. 2025, 04.30
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wrote on 30. mar. 2025, 04.53 sidst redigeret af@julian How do you deal with situations where the group actor also sends posts?
For example, on Hubzilla, (streams), and Forte, the top level post of a forum thread is from the forum, not the user. This was originally done for Mastodon compatibility since it did not understand threaded conversations and groups. They could follow the forum as if it were a user, and receive all of the forum posts. They could send a DM to the forum to create a new post.
NodeBB took a different approach, using boosts to distribute user posts to people who follow the forum. And I think you said you use mentions within a post to create a new top level post.
How are we handling the differences in approaches? -
@julian How do you deal with situations where the group actor also sends posts?
For example, on Hubzilla, (streams), and Forte, the top level post of a forum thread is from the forum, not the user. This was originally done for Mastodon compatibility since it did not understand threaded conversations and groups. They could follow the forum as if it were a user, and receive all of the forum posts. They could send a DM to the forum to create a new post.
NodeBB took a different approach, using boosts to distribute user posts to people who follow the forum. And I think you said you use mentions within a post to create a new top level post.
How are we handling the differences in approaches?wrote on 30. mar. 2025, 16.57 sidst redigeret af julian@community.nodebb.org@scott@loves.tech can you share an example of a group actor from Hubzilla? Would be interesting to see how that’s handled. Likely it wouldn’t work properly because categories in NodeBB don’t author posts.
Do your group actors send creates on behalf of regular users? That might work ok.
Lastly, there’s no requirement that a NodeBB category be mentioned. It only needs to be addressed. A mention is the easiest way to do that because you addressing is abstracted out of the Mastodon UI.
But for things like PieFed, Lemmy, Mbin, and likely Hubzilla, you’re able to change addressing based on where you create the post.
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wrote on 30. mar. 2025, 17.09 sidst redigeret af@julian I'm not sure. They changed things in the last major version when they adopted FEP 171b Conversation Containers.
Some examples of forum channels are @Hubzilla Support Forum and @Neuhub Support Forum. -
wrote on 30. mar. 2025, 17.22 sidst redigeret af@julian
But for things like PieFed, Lemmy, Mbin, and likely Hubzilla, you're able to change addressing based on where you create the post.
Yes, in Hubzilla, we can click on the padlock and select who the post is addressed to, including NodeBB forums. I haven't tried it yet, but Hubzilla does recognize NodeBB categories as "forums." -
wrote on 31. mar. 2025, 03.54 sidst redigeret af@julian I just tried posting five different posts from Hubzilla to @Testing Ground via various methods, and none are showing up.
1. Post from a group actor, selecting audience from list.
2. Post from a group actor, using a mention.
3. Post from a normal actor, selecting audience from list.
4. Post from a normal actor, using a mention.
5. Post from a normal actor, posting to a Hubzilla Forum (group actor) and mentioning the NodeBB category in the post.
I am not sure if that forum is moderated, but none of my posts are showing up. -
@julian I'm not sure. They changed things in the last major version when they adopted FEP 171b Conversation Containers.
Some examples of forum channels are @Hubzilla Support Forum and @Neuhub Support Forum.wrote on 31. mar. 2025, 04.02 sidst redigeret afBy the way, we also have a test forum set up here: @Neuhub Test Forum
#^https://neuhub.org/channel/testforum -
@julian I just tried posting five different posts from Hubzilla to @Testing Ground via various methods, and none are showing up.
1. Post from a group actor, selecting audience from list.
2. Post from a group actor, using a mention.
3. Post from a normal actor, selecting audience from list.
4. Post from a normal actor, using a mention.
5. Post from a normal actor, posting to a Hubzilla Forum (group actor) and mentioning the NodeBB category in the post.
I am not sure if that forum is moderated, but none of my posts are showing up.wrote on 31. mar. 2025, 04.29 sidst redigeret af#^https://community.nodebb.org/inbox delivery rejected: 403 Forbidden 2025-03-30 22:51:57
#^https://community.nodebb.org/inbox delivery rejected: 403 Forbidden 2025-03-30 23:28:55 -
#^https://community.nodebb.org/inbox delivery rejected: 403 Forbidden 2025-03-30 22:51:57
#^https://community.nodebb.org/inbox delivery rejected: 403 Forbidden 2025-03-30 23:28:55wrote on 31. mar. 2025, 15.30 sidst redigeret af@scott@loves.tech Hubzilla is formatting its Notes in a manner I wasn’t expecting.
- The group actor is the
attributedTo, which is not possible in NodeBB - The note itself is not addressed to the group actor, only its followers collection
- There is no way to discern without parsing the note content itself who authored the original note.
So at present while I would be able to retrieve the note, without a proper backreference to the group actor, I don’t think I can slot it correctly.
Not sure why the received activity is returning a 403, as well.
- The group actor is the
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wrote on 31. mar. 2025, 15.31 sidst redigeret af
Forgot to cc @mario@hub.somaton.com re: the above.
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wrote on 31. mar. 2025, 18.17 sidst redigeret af@julian I saw a NodeBB test on Hubzilla Monster. I'm guessing that was you.
In order for you to properly mention someone, the Hubzilla server needs to know about that actor first. The easiest way to achieve this is to follow (connect to) that actor. This adds the actor to the database. This only needs to be done if no one on the server is following them or being followed by them.
This does create an extra step if the actor is unknown to the server, but it does force spammers to follow unknown actors before they can mention them. -
wrote on 31. mar. 2025, 18.25 sidst redigeret af@julian @Mario Vavti That is one thing that I wish Hubzilla did, and that is identify the author of the original note (top level post in a forum), both internally in the database and in a variable available to themes, and externally via Zot protocol and ActivityPub.
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wrote on 31. mar. 2025, 19.51 sidst redigeret af@julian in Hubzilla the group actor will fork the original post with a quote reshare. Hence
attributedTois set to the group actor. IIRC the author of the original post is being stored for refernce but we currently do not use this info.
@Scott M. Stolz -
@julian in Hubzilla the group actor will fork the original post with a quote reshare. Hence
attributedTois set to the group actor. IIRC the author of the original post is being stored for refernce but we currently do not use this info.
@Scott M. Stolzwrote on 31. mar. 2025, 20.00 sidst redigeret af@mario@hub.somaton.com since Hubzilla posts (incl. yours) are making it in fine I’m assuming this is only for the “forum” feature?
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wrote on 31. mar. 2025, 20.14 sidst redigeret af@julian right.
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@julian in Hubzilla the group actor will fork the original post with a quote reshare. Hence
attributedTois set to the group actor. IIRC the author of the original post is being stored for refernce but we currently do not use this info.
@Scott M. Stolzwrote on 31. mar. 2025, 22.55 sidst redigeret af@Mario Vavti If we exposed the original author to the Hubzilla UI as a variable and via Zot and ActivityPub, it would allow the UI to display the author of the first post instead of or in addition to the name of the forum.
I understand that on the backend it may be desirable to have the first post in a forum owned by the forum for backwards compatibility with platforms that don't support groups, but the UI does not have to display the first post with the forum as the author. We have the information about the author of the first post, so might as well display it. -
@julian in Hubzilla the group actor will fork the original post with a quote reshare. Hence
attributedTois set to the group actor. IIRC the author of the original post is being stored for refernce but we currently do not use this info.
@Scott M. Stolzwrote on 31. mar. 2025, 23.29 sidst redigeret af@Mario Vavti @julian Another compatibility issue that we may need to look at is permissions to post. Hubzilla can restrict posts and comments to only being from people following the forum, for example. It also has a moderated mode, which will accept posts from unknown actors, but will place it in a moderation queue. So it may be desirable to turn off the ability to comment if the permissions to comment are not permitted for a particular actor. -
@Mario Vavti If we exposed the original author to the Hubzilla UI as a variable and via Zot and ActivityPub, it would allow the UI to display the author of the first post instead of or in addition to the name of the forum.
I understand that on the backend it may be desirable to have the first post in a forum owned by the forum for backwards compatibility with platforms that don't support groups, but the UI does not have to display the first post with the forum as the author. We have the information about the author of the first post, so might as well display it.wrote on 1. apr. 2025, 05.01 sidst redigeret af@Scott M. Stolz i think this would be very misleading. But this discussion does not belong here. -
@Scott M. Stolz i think this would be very misleading. But this discussion does not belong here.wrote on 1. apr. 2025, 05.08 sidst redigeret af@Mario Vavti Okay. Deleting the post.