37° heat is depressing.
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@malte Thank you for saying this - I've been demoralised by the general reaction I see around me, both in 'real life' and online. People are putting so much effort into explaining away any need to modify our behaviour in any way. So I am encouraged to hear that it's not just me!
@CiaraNi I am definitely in your subgroup. And I regularly feel very alone about this issue. The more serious climate change becomes, I am frustrated with how little personal responsibility we are willing to take and how an idealized thought about fairness (those who are richer / worse / etc than me should change, before I will change) gets in the way and unintentionally makes us fuel global warming even more.
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@CiaraNi I am definitely in your subgroup. And I regularly feel very alone about this issue. The more serious climate change becomes, I am frustrated with how little personal responsibility we are willing to take and how an idealized thought about fairness (those who are richer / worse / etc than me should change, before I will change) gets in the way and unintentionally makes us fuel global warming even more.
@CiaraNi The main question I ask people is whether they are willing to live within the planetary boundaries. If you are not, you live as if your life is more valuable than other people. I don't care if they fly or eat meat, as long as they live within those boundaries. The fact is, if you fly to Thailand, you will have used a large part of your annual budget for several years and qould have to make very serious prioritizations on your other energy demands.
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@clew @hamishb I've been thinking about that a lot lately too - the power we have collectively if we mass-boycotted, say, Amazon. Or those cheap fast-fashion companies that pay low wages and use so much of the planet's energy to make and deliver throwaway clothes. They wouldn't and couldn't do that if so many individual people didn't buy things from them. But as you say - there are rarely any takers when we say the word 'boycott'.
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@wannabemystiker True, unfortunately. I was thinking of this contrast earlier: about once a year, someone learns for the first time that Captain Boycott was a real English land agent who was ostracized in the 1880s by the entire local community in Mayo. That person posts about it online. It goes viral. Everyone cheers those already poverty-stricken people who took action at great risk and invented 'the boycott'. But proposals for inconvenient modern boycotts meet no cheering.
fossil fuel users are mostly in the position of Boycott’s _employers_, the _landlords_ — our lives are easier when the extraction is harsher.
Temporarily. Not that rackrenters didn’t know it would be ruinous eventually.
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@CiaraNi I am definitely in your subgroup. And I regularly feel very alone about this issue. The more serious climate change becomes, I am frustrated with how little personal responsibility we are willing to take and how an idealized thought about fairness (those who are richer / worse / etc than me should change, before I will change) gets in the way and unintentionally makes us fuel global warming even more.
@malte I hope there are more of us than we think, that some kind of folkebevægelse or tipping-point is going to reveal a ready-to-go mass movement that wants to make mass change through a mass of individual actions. I am a little less hopeful than I was a week ago because the 37 degree weather changed to cool windy rainy days, so the 'oh the heat, the climate!' small talk chats changed to silence.
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@CiaraNi The main question I ask people is whether they are willing to live within the planetary boundaries. If you are not, you live as if your life is more valuable than other people. I don't care if they fly or eat meat, as long as they live within those boundaries. The fact is, if you fly to Thailand, you will have used a large part of your annual budget for several years and qould have to make very serious prioritizations on your other energy demands.
"The main question I ask people is whether they are willing to live within the planetary boundaries"
Great way to frame it! Aside from being horrified at Denmark's early date in the Country Overshoot statistics, I've never asked myself that question in that way, specifically examining my individual overshoot. I'm an 'almost' everything: 'almost' never fly, except for family matters; 'almost' don't eat meat, expect for chicken once a week, etc. I must think about my own Overshoot stats.
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@rabbit74 Yes, thoughts of boycotts don't seem to get much traction these days and these decades.
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fossil fuel users are mostly in the position of Boycott’s _employers_, the _landlords_ — our lives are easier when the extraction is harsher.
Temporarily. Not that rackrenters didn’t know it would be ruinous eventually.
"fossil fuel users are mostly in the position of Boycott’s _employers_, the _landlords_ — our lives are easier when the extraction is harsher."
This is such a clear-sighted observation. I've been thinking about the way we individual people don't use the collective power of our individual actions to mass effect - the big fossil fuel profiteers wold make less money if we mass boycotted. I hadn't thought of it like this. That we're the 'landlords', the ones paying for their services.
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"The main question I ask people is whether they are willing to live within the planetary boundaries"
Great way to frame it! Aside from being horrified at Denmark's early date in the Country Overshoot statistics, I've never asked myself that question in that way, specifically examining my individual overshoot. I'm an 'almost' everything: 'almost' never fly, except for family matters; 'almost' don't eat meat, expect for chicken once a week, etc. I must think about my own Overshoot stats.
Have you heard https://domino-effekten.dk/ (in danish)
And a question, who defines planetary boundaries?
I agree with you, but a little concerned about who defines the rules.
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Have you heard https://domino-effekten.dk/ (in danish)
And a question, who defines planetary boundaries?
I agree with you, but a little concerned about who defines the rules.
@alf149 Jeg havde slet ikke hørt om Domino-effekten. Efter et første kvik-kig, har jeg straks abonneret på den. Det lyder som en interessant pendant til Lost Terminal. Tak fordi du delte tippet og navnet.
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Have you heard https://domino-effekten.dk/ (in danish)
And a question, who defines planetary boundaries?
I agree with you, but a little concerned about who defines the rules.
"who defines planetary boundaries? ... a little concerned about who defines the rules."
The situation feels as if we urgently need to have big conversations at small levels. To make it socially expected that we pool individual actions for mass actions and boycotts that tell politicians & companies 'act now!' Most of us with the privilege to have something to boycott don't want to give up our comforts. I fear 'who defines what?' may get used by some as an excuse to do nothing.
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"The main question I ask people is whether they are willing to live within the planetary boundaries"
Great way to frame it! Aside from being horrified at Denmark's early date in the Country Overshoot statistics, I've never asked myself that question in that way, specifically examining my individual overshoot. I'm an 'almost' everything: 'almost' never fly, except for family matters; 'almost' don't eat meat, expect for chicken once a week, etc. I must think about my own Overshoot stats.
@CiaraNi I'm an almost everything too. As for food, the medical journal The Lancet published a great report with how to eat within the planetary boundaries, its called Planetary Health Diet. And it is very much a "sometimes" diet!
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Have you heard https://domino-effekten.dk/ (in danish)
And a question, who defines planetary boundaries?
I agree with you, but a little concerned about who defines the rules.
@alf149 We define how much suffering we are willing to live with. I assume you've heard of the boundaries 1,5 degrees and so on. That's planetary boundaries. See here e.g. "This budget results in approximately 0.95 tCO2 per capita when given a population of 7.3 billion." Tian, P., Zhong, H., Chen, X., Feng, K., Sun, L., Zhang, N., ... & Hubacek, K. (2024). Keeping the global consumption within the planetary boundaries. Nature, 635(8039), 625-630. @CiaraNi
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@CiaraNi I'm an almost everything too. As for food, the medical journal The Lancet published a great report with how to eat within the planetary boundaries, its called Planetary Health Diet. And it is very much a "sometimes" diet!
"Planetary Health Diet. And it is very much a "sometimes" diet!"
That's really encouraging! I've been conscious of the fact that (except for never driving), I've done nothing fully and all-out. Like, I'm not vegan. I've only 'almost' changed different behaviours. It's good to know even the experts see value in 'sometimes' and 'almost' in a climate-change context.
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J jwcph@helvede.net shared this topic
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"Planetary Health Diet. And it is very much a "sometimes" diet!"
That's really encouraging! I've been conscious of the fact that (except for never driving), I've done nothing fully and all-out. Like, I'm not vegan. I've only 'almost' changed different behaviours. It's good to know even the experts see value in 'sometimes' and 'almost' in a climate-change context.
@CiaraNi I think its really the way to go on most things in this issue! It solves a lot of problems. Proportions is what matters in these boundaries. One challenge then is that proportions at this scale are difficult to understand for the human mind. With "sometimes", you have to be very specific for it to not become a false story you tell yourself.
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@CiaraNi I think its really the way to go on most things in this issue! It solves a lot of problems. Proportions is what matters in these boundaries. One challenge then is that proportions at this scale are difficult to understand for the human mind. With "sometimes", you have to be very specific for it to not become a false story you tell yourself.
"With "sometimes", you have to be very specific for it to not become a false story you tell yourself."
Yes, absolutely.
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F folfdk@helvede.net shared this topic
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Det er
https://www.klimajournalisterne.dk/
der har lavet den og jeg synes også den er god. Har forsøgt at promovere den, men det er jo et arbejde i sig selv.De har også lavet "Det vi burde tale om" som også er en anbefaling værd (den er nævnt på deres side)
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Det er
https://www.klimajournalisterne.dk/
der har lavet den og jeg synes også den er god. Har forsøgt at promovere den, men det er jo et arbejde i sig selv.De har også lavet "Det vi burde tale om" som også er en anbefaling værd (den er nævnt på deres side)
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@alf149 We define how much suffering we are willing to live with. I assume you've heard of the boundaries 1,5 degrees and so on. That's planetary boundaries. See here e.g. "This budget results in approximately 0.95 tCO2 per capita when given a population of 7.3 billion." Tian, P., Zhong, H., Chen, X., Feng, K., Sun, L., Zhang, N., ... & Hubacek, K. (2024). Keeping the global consumption within the planetary boundaries. Nature, 635(8039), 625-630. @CiaraNi
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