37° heat is depressing.
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"People are not going to change behaviour at a scale that really matters"
They certainly won't as long as frivolous flying is something we congratulate people on instead of it being frowned-upon. If that flight to London is for a holiday, not work or family, then an Aarhus-KBH train price comparison is irrelevant. We were proud to be part of the mass South African apartheid boycott in the '80s. Now we tell each other it's no real use boycotting holiday flights.
@CiaraNi @TCatInReality
I did not say that it doesn't matter what we do as individuals
What I meant is that the economic incentives are way more effective and they require political action. -
"People are not going to change behaviour at a scale that really matters"
They certainly won't as long as frivolous flying is something we congratulate people on instead of it being frowned-upon. If that flight to London is for a holiday, not work or family, then an Aarhus-KBH train price comparison is irrelevant. We were proud to be part of the mass South African apartheid boycott in the '80s. Now we tell each other it's no real use boycotting holiday flights.
@CiaraNi @jakobtougaard @TCatInReality
I really thought after COVID, and grounded planes and quiet skies we had learned something, how wrong was I
Our family stopped using plastic carriers in the '80's and were recycling before we had roadside collections in the UK, we have 11 waterbutts and an extra large tank plumbed to the loo so we don't flush drinking water every time we flush!!
I personally have never flown, I'm not saying any of this to seem like some hero cos I'm not we're a two car household, and both are diesel, I'm just saying there are things that we can do on an individual level.
And we have to keep pushing governments to put in the changes needed, we will get over it!
I can get anywhere I want on TV or online!!
Without passport queues, to moan about!! -
@TCatInReality I don't think it is either/or. Yes, private jets should be banned. Yes, governments need to take radical action and impose inconvenient policies. But also yes, we have collective power. The 1% is a problem. So are those of us in the 10% or whatever the figure is, the minority who over-consume and frivolously fly. Imagine the signal and the impact if there was a mass boycott of holiday flights. Instead of just pointing at politicians and billionaires, we can show them we mean it.
@CiaraNi @TCatInReality I think there's 2 factors. One is that people who want to do the right thing feel overwhelmed and simply surviving with wars, cost of living, AI Trump etc. That it won't make a difference and making small changes might make you feel better doesn't move the needle so it's hard to keep going when doing the right thing is harder (eg public transport is worse, holidaying locally with poorer weather and more expensive).
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@TCatInReality I don't think it is either/or. Yes, private jets should be banned. Yes, governments need to take radical action and impose inconvenient policies. But also yes, we have collective power. The 1% is a problem. So are those of us in the 10% or whatever the figure is, the minority who over-consume and frivolously fly. Imagine the signal and the impact if there was a mass boycott of holiday flights. Instead of just pointing at politicians and billionaires, we can show them we mean it.
@CiaraNi @TCatInReality The second is the role of gov is both making rules but also creating the right incentives. Eg making users pay 15c plastic bags changed behavior. They should do the same for things which make the highest impact. Eg a fixed cost per plane to land in Dublin airport of €10000 wouldn't mean a lot to a large plane but somewhat effective for small private planes.
Greater subsidizes on public transport, solar EV conversion paid via monthly change rather than upfront,etc -
37° heat is depressing. So is the way we’re dealing with climate collapse. The language we’re using, the excuses we’re making. Making heat records a game, excitedly watching to see if Number Goes Up. The news said the latest temperature had ‘ruined the chance of another new record’. And we all seem to agree that, conveniently, there’s no use in inconveniencing ourselves personally by consuming less or not flying until the day after every billionaire has given up their private jet.
@CiaraNi I would like that every report about the heat wave end with: " but sure, continue to buy and drive SUV, these Stupid Unnecessary Vehicles! "
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37° heat is depressing. So is the way we’re dealing with climate collapse. The language we’re using, the excuses we’re making. Making heat records a game, excitedly watching to see if Number Goes Up. The news said the latest temperature had ‘ruined the chance of another new record’. And we all seem to agree that, conveniently, there’s no use in inconveniencing ourselves personally by consuming less or not flying until the day after every billionaire has given up their private jet.
@CiaraNi It's frustrating how little attention seems to be directed at a reliable railway system across Europe. I really wish I could just take trains from Denmark to visit my family in Greece, but so many things get in the way (including Hellenic Train being considered pretty much a death trap right now).
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I dunno. Some of it is conscious, by the most lost people. But I think it’s mostly the aggregated property of what most of us do at the individual scale.
A billion “yeah I could do the low carbon thing but there are ‘reasons’ why this journey, this meeting, this purchase can’t do that”.
What we most critically lack are contexts in which to talk about why our ‘reasons’ are dust and what to do about it
I don't think there's anything more overwhelming to think about than Climate Change and I think it's one of those things that feels so overwhelming to most people that it just causes them to short circuit their brains to the extent of, "there's nothing I can do bc I'm only one person so screw it I'm just going to carry on even though I'm terrified."
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I don't think there's anything more overwhelming to think about than Climate Change and I think it's one of those things that feels so overwhelming to most people that it just causes them to short circuit their brains to the extent of, "there's nothing I can do bc I'm only one person so screw it I'm just going to carry on even though I'm terrified."
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@CiaraNi It's frustrating how little attention seems to be directed at a reliable railway system across Europe. I really wish I could just take trains from Denmark to visit my family in Greece, but so many things get in the way (including Hellenic Train being considered pretty much a death trap right now).
@CiaraNi Also you're really on point on the language we've been using. It's been shocking to me how many people here in Denmark seem to downplay the situation, not saying much beyond "wow it's pretty hot today isn't it". And when I say how abnormal this all is, my emotional reaction gets attributed to my cultural background
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But not in the sense that they don't care. In the sense that it feels like such a large problem they feel helpless to contribute.
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We tone-policed flight shame away so quickly. We made smoking socially unacceptable. Smokers still smoke and are free to smoke, but give you a slightly apologetic embarrassed grin as they sneak out to the smoking area. When someone says they've bought a holiday home in Spain and someone else says they're bringing the whole family to Thailand to celebrate their birthday, there are no apologetic grins and the social expectation is still that everyone else exclaims "Oh how lovely! Lucky you!"
@CiaraNi As if smoking is even the least bit contained.
slightly apologetic embarrassed grin as they sneak out to the smoking area = dump tobacco, weed and whatever else on neighbors and passersby and threaten anyone who complains
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@CiaraNi Yes. I've been thinking it really is time to stop that.
Sometimes, when people are discussing holiday plans, I'll mutter "I don't fly anymore, except for family visits, because my conscience won't let me. But you do you". But I'll be the only one at the lunch table.
During this June heatwave (11-12 days here, with a maximum of 37 degrees), I've been thinking I should really start speaking up more. Someone should start changing the social expectation, right?
Young people flying to holiday destinations multiple times a year. I don't get it. It's not like they haven't been aware of climate change since middle school. And they'll be suffering the consequences for their whole - hopefully long - lives.
@marjon I’ve tried being passive, not performing the Oh Lovely! reaction when someone says they’ve booked a flight to their newest city break. Lately, like yourself, seeing how badly it's going, I’ve tried working into the conversation that I only fly when it's to family on islands, and then only on whatever leg of the trip requires a plane. I mention that I’d love to do #NoFly, but for family reasons, I can only do #NoFrivolousFly until I have time for long, multi-leg train trips across seas.
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@CiaraNi Yes. I've been thinking it really is time to stop that.
Sometimes, when people are discussing holiday plans, I'll mutter "I don't fly anymore, except for family visits, because my conscience won't let me. But you do you". But I'll be the only one at the lunch table.
During this June heatwave (11-12 days here, with a maximum of 37 degrees), I've been thinking I should really start speaking up more. Someone should start changing the social expectation, right?
Young people flying to holiday destinations multiple times a year. I don't get it. It's not like they haven't been aware of climate change since middle school. And they'll be suffering the consequences for their whole - hopefully long - lives.
“I've been thinking I should really start speaking up more. Someone should start changing the social expectation, right?”
Yes! Me too. We need to collectively change the social expectation and the conversation. To encourage each other to use our collective superpowers, taking action like a mass boycott of holiday flights.
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My generation and the one before it have made prospects for young people relentlessly shit. They know it. And we’ve trained them to think that voting is the only real agency they have. Which is bullshit.
For the most part, I don’t begrudge them making their lives momentarily less shit
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@CiaraNi The gamification of our own demise.
I have spent the last years focusing on thinking clearly.
Would not have thought that this was in the cards.
@spdrnl "The gamification of our own demise." Yes. The word 'gamification' keeps popping into my mind the last few days since the temperatures where I am (Denmark) got as high as those already melting Germany, France etc. News reports and social conversations are mostly a breathless excited game of who can report the latest highest record temperature, like it's a prize we've won.
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@CiaraNi this last week has been quite shocking. The second heatwave of the year in the UK. I hope folks are beginning to take notice. Many are too self-centred to care, other than by making sure they buy the right brand of air con...
@caffetino My experience in the past few days, when the heat has hit properly where I am (Denmark), is that people are noticing and talking about it, but what they're talking about is all the 'reasons' why none of us have to modify our individual behaviour and consumption because it's no use, 'what can one person do?' The possibility of change through collective action and mass boycotts is never mentioned.
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@CiaraNi Just watched the news and an older woman was delighted because "you can take your coffee outside are 7 and it is so nice. That is something we can usually not do."
I just... can't.
@hemlockcookie
Yeah. Now try taking your tea outside late afternoon and see how nice that is. (I'm 71 and decidedly undelighted.)
@CiaraNi -
@CiaraNi Just watched the news and an older woman was delighted because "you can take your coffee outside are 7 and it is so nice. That is something we can usually not do."
I just... can't.
@hemlockcookie Oh that's so depressing. And she's not the only one. I wish the news would show more courage about reporting within a context. They don't need to share that kind of thinking, making a climate crisis seem nice. Demoralising is absolutely the right word.
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@CiaraNi Just watched the news and an older woman was delighted because "you can take your coffee outside are 7 and it is so nice. That is something we can usually not do."
I just... can't.
@hemlockcookie @CiaraNi God I want to punch people like that, or scream "we won't have coffee soon because the places where it grows will become deserts, and entitled imbeciles like you offloading responsibility to other people is a reason for that".
Grr.
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37° heat is depressing. So is the way we’re dealing with climate collapse. The language we’re using, the excuses we’re making. Making heat records a game, excitedly watching to see if Number Goes Up. The news said the latest temperature had ‘ruined the chance of another new record’. And we all seem to agree that, conveniently, there’s no use in inconveniencing ourselves personally by consuming less or not flying until the day after every billionaire has given up their private jet.
@CiaraNi I wonder how much pollution there is from all of the private jets.
