37° heat is depressing.
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@CiaraNi @harib_murshidi a well written straw argument.
We are all exceptionally rich, for the most part.
@dckim @harib_murshidi I think we need to bring the 10% (or whatever the figure is; it's somewhere around that) into the conversation as well as the 1%. Those of us who have the privilege to over-consume and take unnecessary flights are a small minority of all people on the planet. Collectively, we have actual consumer power to boycott and give clear signals to politicians.
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@experimentmapass This was my hope too, so I am now demoralised after the first few days of harsh heat where I am. It seems to be having the opposite effect - so many people are coming up with so many 'reasons' why it will make no real difference if individual people modify their individual behaviour. It's starting to feel very 'I'll give you my city-break flights when you pry them from my cold, dead hands on a warm, dead planet'.
@CiaraNi @tompearce49 @marjon also we’re always being told that it’s wrong to focus on personal actions so I’m constantly feeling guilty for even existing, but I’m also the only family member / close friend who’s joined a climate group so I can’t help think the two things are linked.
I’m not living a perfect eco life, of course but I just imagine a world where you say ‘hey there’s this big problem’ and people around you are like ‘let’s work on this together, you’re not alone’ that would be awesome, I must be so naive or something but I honestly thought that would happen if people had enough information. I probably still do!
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@dckim @harib_murshidi I think we need to bring the 10% (or whatever the figure is; it's somewhere around that) into the conversation as well as the 1%. Those of us who have the privilege to over-consume and take unnecessary flights are a small minority of all people on the planet. Collectively, we have actual consumer power to boycott and give clear signals to politicians.
We should try to get the word out on this for people to press the money into shoe-boxes and sit idle during vacation.
The economist are always pressing towards a 'full-employment' which will guarantee a maximal consumption for their profit-books.
More and more, expend all you can at all times. That's the prevailing motto. If you can't spend it invest it to be spent some other way.
Insatiable
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@CiaraNi @tompearce49 @marjon also we’re always being told that it’s wrong to focus on personal actions so I’m constantly feeling guilty for even existing, but I’m also the only family member / close friend who’s joined a climate group so I can’t help think the two things are linked.
I’m not living a perfect eco life, of course but I just imagine a world where you say ‘hey there’s this big problem’ and people around you are like ‘let’s work on this together, you’re not alone’ that would be awesome, I must be so naive or something but I honestly thought that would happen if people had enough information. I probably still do!
@annaf
"I just imagine a world where you say ‘hey there’s this big problem’ and people around you are like ‘let’s work on this together, you’re not alone’ that would be awesome" - that would indeed be awesome. The way things are going, we need that. -
@dckim @harib_murshidi On the plus side, as long as those billionaires keep flying private jets and sailing private yachts and wearing expensive wristwatches and driving Lamborghinis, then the rest of us don't have to do anything. We don't have to give up holiday flights or fast fashion or regular mobile phone upgrades or make any changes whatsoever to our consumer behaviour. Thank heavens for billionaires!
@CiaraNi @dckim is this some kind of a taunt to the 'poor of the world' or something ?!
correct me if I am wrongThe 'regular' things you have mentioned are also not a regular thing for the majority of the world population i.e. the global south ! I for one have not even seen the insides of an airliner yet,
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37° heat is depressing. So is the way we’re dealing with climate collapse. The language we’re using, the excuses we’re making. Making heat records a game, excitedly watching to see if Number Goes Up. The news said the latest temperature had ‘ruined the chance of another new record’. And we all seem to agree that, conveniently, there’s no use in inconveniencing ourselves personally by consuming less or not flying until the day after every billionaire has given up their private jet.
I've worked on climate issues since the mid 1990s. And I have to tell you that personally consuming less or not flying make no difference. If you don't believe me, we had a big natural experiment with Covid, and there was a momentary bump that did nothing to stop the drivers of fossil fuel use.
People can do something and what's involved is political resistance, not the electoral kind.
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@CiaraNi @dckim is this some kind of a taunt to the 'poor of the world' or something ?!
correct me if I am wrongThe 'regular' things you have mentioned are also not a regular thing for the majority of the world population i.e. the global south ! I for one have not even seen the insides of an airliner yet,
I am considered quite poor in Canada but, I have been on an airplane before.
If you count single trips, 5 times. There and back. 3 times to Germany where I visited relatives. 2 times to British Columbia, visiting relatives again.
I assume it is very expensive, and it was at that time too.
People blame these things for 'global warming'. I think that is the theme.
In the religious sense, it makes no difference. I am happy to have just food and water and a place to live.
100%
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@DoubleTreble @jakobtougaard @TCatInReality Yes, we managed fine without airborne holidays, flying only when genuinely necessary, and people boasted about all the lovely new places and experiences they'd found in their own country. Then most people rushed back to the cheap charter holidays and cheap flights.
@CiaraNi @jakobtougaard @TCatInReality
And the a holiday in your own Country became a 'Staycation'
Which was all my childhood holidays, and our childrens too, camping around the UK.
Which they tell us they loved 🥰🥰 -
the best choice is to give away money that is in excess of your own needs, if you can afford it. Every day that we have enough food for that day is a blessing, and it's as if we have everything.
Most of the poverty that we see is people actively preventing others from getting what is provided in abundance.
That's the reality of tyranny.
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There is a pervasive sense of "what difference does it make?" when it's the 100 corporations and the 1% who do the biggest amount of damage. And there is a lot of truth in that, but waiting for that to be solved will not help prepare us for what is coming either. There is a lot of room between obsessing over "individual footprint" and doing at all nothing to change. Capitalism encourages FOMO; choosing to miss out is part of the resistance.
My response to the “it’s all from 100 corporations “ is “all right! We just boycott those!”
No takers. No suggestions of a plan to control them.
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@CiaraNi @dckim is this some kind of a taunt to the 'poor of the world' or something ?!
correct me if I am wrongThe 'regular' things you have mentioned are also not a regular thing for the majority of the world population i.e. the global south ! I for one have not even seen the insides of an airliner yet,
@harib_murshidi @dckim Sorry if it was unclear - I meant it ironically. My point was exactly that - that over-consumption and flights are not regular things for the majority of people on the planet. And that the '10%' minority who have these privileges can modify their behaviour as a collective signal, instead of just pointing at the 1% and saying: I will not change my consumer behaviour until the billionaires all give up their jets'.
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@harib_murshidi We are in agreement
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@harib_murshidi We are in agreement
I stand corrected, I am gonna delete what I said before... sorry it was difficult to grasp the 'irony' behind some statements, sometimes !
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@harib_murshidi @dckim Sorry if it was unclear - I meant it ironically. My point was exactly that - that over-consumption and flights are not regular things for the majority of people on the planet. And that the '10%' minority who have these privileges can modify their behaviour as a collective signal, instead of just pointing at the 1% and saying: I will not change my consumer behaviour until the billionaires all give up their jets'.
Well said, I took everything in the positive sense. I can tell that you are a wonderful and thoughtful person.
Who else would take time to reply to whatever I originally wrote? I have forgotten the first subject matter by now...
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As long as people can continue to have dialogue with each other, and do not become polarized and then adversaries to each other, then everything is actually much better.
This is the way to support each other towards positive results.
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I've worked on climate issues since the mid 1990s. And I have to tell you that personally consuming less or not flying make no difference. If you don't believe me, we had a big natural experiment with Covid, and there was a momentary bump that did nothing to stop the drivers of fossil fuel use.
People can do something and what's involved is political resistance, not the electoral kind.
@richpuchalsky Mass boycotts are political action, I think. Like the South Africa apartheid boycott. They make our demands for action clear to politicians. If holiday flights were boycotted, the statement wouldn't just be about consuming less fuel. It would reduce numbers travelling through airports, which are basically shopping malls. And have other knock-on economic effects. This time, there would be no Covid lockdown subsidies for businesses losing money. Anything seems worth a try right now.
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@harib_murshidi @dckim Oh no - it was me not making it clear! I just tapped it out, knowing the context in my own head - not easy to get through a screen
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@clew @hamishb I've been thinking about that a lot lately too - the power we have collectively if we mass-boycotted, say, Amazon. Or those cheap fast-fashion companies that pay low wages and use so much of the planet's energy to make and deliver throwaway clothes. They wouldn't and couldn't do that if so many individual people didn't buy things from them. But as you say - there are rarely any takers when we say the word 'boycott'.
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@CiaraNi
We're, in fact, close to the point where we'll be lucky to survive a heatwave at all. I live in central France, not a hot region, and we hit 47⁰C in the shadow last Monday. More than a thousand people died of heat-related causes in just six days, only in France.
@hemlockcookie@Eetschrijver @hemlockcookie If the number of heatwave deaths in each country were the result of a virus, there'd be emergency measures and lockdowns and preventative measures.
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@Eetschrijver @hemlockcookie If the number of heatwave deaths in each country were the result of a virus, there'd be emergency measures and lockdowns and preventative measures.
@CiaraNi
Absolutely. It boggles the mind.
@hemlockcookie
