I think the appearance of free software really broke the oligarch's brains.
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@hajovonta
That's not a secret, also not the point.The 2 main things about free software that offend capital are:
1. Capital can't appropriate it easily and enclose the commons because of capital's own copyright laws
2. Individual human skill can't be owned by a company: it's a rare form of workers owning the means of productionLLMs attack this by:
1. selectively ignoring copyright with the blessing of the powerful
2. eroding the value of human skill to rebalance power in capital's favour@petealexharris @hajovonta I don’t think your argument tracks, because the product of LLMs cannot* be copyrighted. So it’s not a way to enclose the commons.
*Based on my understanding of copyright law, but will be determined based on massive litigation.
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@petealexharris @hajovonta I don’t think your argument tracks, because the product of LLMs cannot* be copyrighted. So it’s not a way to enclose the commons.
*Based on my understanding of copyright law, but will be determined based on massive litigation.
@adamrice @hajovonta
They're enclosing the tools, and feeding the tools with the product of decades of other people's work without compensation of reciprocation.Note also, copyright trolls haven't gone away. They're now lurking under bridges waiting to selectively jump on victims with medium sized pockets who can't ragdoll them in the courts like IBM did to SCO.
Just because you don't try to copyright something an LLM wrote doesn't mean they can't bleed you for it if they find 1 stolen line.
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@hajovonta
Code monkey is a slur.I have spoken in other posts about where the skill in producing software lies, and if you want to have that argument, go and have it elsewhere.
This thread is about *what corporations want* from the technology, not whatever cope you can summon about how some of the side effects might not be too bad actually. I guarantee you that's not what any of this is about, for them.
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@robcornelius
His brain is broken in multiple ways for multiple reasons. He's a living caricature of the capital class, a Spiders Georg of the dysfunction of privilege. but the more sinister ones like Thiel and Ellison are all broken in a few of the same ways.Trump, Musk, Theil, Zuckerberg, Ellison etc are basically living like Bond Villains or even comic book costumed super-villains minus the costumes, at least so far. I am sure they are calling up Hugo Boss and asking about designs for uniforms.
In the past criminal organizations and their leaders stayed well out of sight because they didn't want to wind up in jail.
People like Al Capone, John Dillinger(s) and the Kray twins here in the UK became famous whilst being villains. They all wound up in jail or dead quite quickly. Compared to the Trump International Crime Syndicate those villains were very small fry indeed. Capone only controlled 2 or 3 neighbourhoods in Chicago at best.
Fascism allows these motherfuckers to swan around in public and even get "elected". (What ever happened to Zuckerberg's professed desire to enter politics?) People worship these motherfuckers like gods instead of hanging them from lamp posts.
I honestly think that 21st century neo-liberal capitalism and its fascist political wing is based on millions of every day people having Stockholm Syndrome for the super-villains.
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I agree with you. As a software developer the first thing I always did was to look to see if I could find code that did something like my current project and modify it to do what I needed. Of course I did that. It saved my time and costs for my employer.
AI coding systems are just a faster way to do the same thing. Currently they don't produce very reliable code and it is often better for me to code something from scratch. But sometimes AI saves time.
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I agree with you. As a software developer the first thing I always did was to look to see if I could find code that did something like my current project and modify it to do what I needed. Of course I did that. It saved my time and costs for my employer.
AI coding systems are just a faster way to do the same thing. Currently they don't produce very reliable code and it is often better for me to code something from scratch. But sometimes AI saves time.
@hajovonta I am not impressed by people who just blanketly condemn new technology. They are often motivated by fear and paranoia. The world is not so simple.
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@hajovonta I am not impressed by people who just blanketly condemn new technology. They are often motivated by fear and paranoia. The world is not so simple.
That's important, because we were all looking to impress you. It's the first thing I think about when I get up in the morning.
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I think the appearance of free software really broke the oligarch's brains. People are just giving away stuff that should be Shareholder Value? And we *can't* buy it off them and own it? People are just running a compiler whenever they like to make whatever they want without paying anyone?
The push to adopt LLM-powered code generation tools is so frenzied and desperate partly because it's a perceived solution to claw back ownership of the means of production into the Right Hands.
@petealexharris interesting point
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I agree with you. As a software developer the first thing I always did was to look to see if I could find code that did something like my current project and modify it to do what I needed. Of course I did that. It saved my time and costs for my employer.
AI coding systems are just a faster way to do the same thing. Currently they don't produce very reliable code and it is often better for me to code something from scratch. But sometimes AI saves time.
@galaxy_map @hajovonta AI coding systems are a way to get an excuse for why you’re disrespecting free software licenses, getting code that has no visible provenance.
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Trump, Musk, Theil, Zuckerberg, Ellison etc are basically living like Bond Villains or even comic book costumed super-villains minus the costumes, at least so far. I am sure they are calling up Hugo Boss and asking about designs for uniforms.
In the past criminal organizations and their leaders stayed well out of sight because they didn't want to wind up in jail.
People like Al Capone, John Dillinger(s) and the Kray twins here in the UK became famous whilst being villains. They all wound up in jail or dead quite quickly. Compared to the Trump International Crime Syndicate those villains were very small fry indeed. Capone only controlled 2 or 3 neighbourhoods in Chicago at best.
Fascism allows these motherfuckers to swan around in public and even get "elected". (What ever happened to Zuckerberg's professed desire to enter politics?) People worship these motherfuckers like gods instead of hanging them from lamp posts.
I honestly think that 21st century neo-liberal capitalism and its fascist political wing is based on millions of every day people having Stockholm Syndrome for the super-villains.
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I think the appearance of free software really broke the oligarch's brains. People are just giving away stuff that should be Shareholder Value? And we *can't* buy it off them and own it? People are just running a compiler whenever they like to make whatever they want without paying anyone?
The push to adopt LLM-powered code generation tools is so frenzied and desperate partly because it's a perceived solution to claw back ownership of the means of production into the Right Hands.
@petealexharris I remember when Sun decided to charge a fee for using the Sun C compiler and on mass everyone switched to using GCC practically overnight.
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@petealexharris I remember when Sun decided to charge a fee for using the Sun C compiler and on mass everyone switched to using GCC practically overnight.
@ianturton
Buying your tools from the company store is so 2 centuries ago. -
I think the appearance of free software really broke the oligarch's brains. People are just giving away stuff that should be Shareholder Value? And we *can't* buy it off them and own it? People are just running a compiler whenever they like to make whatever they want without paying anyone?
The push to adopt LLM-powered code generation tools is so frenzied and desperate partly because it's a perceived solution to claw back ownership of the means of production into the Right Hands.
@petealexharris Eh. Given the amount of times I've seen "X project used the world over by every multinational ever is badly maintained by like one dude in Nebrahoma because nobody pays for it", I'm not sure about your base argument.
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@petealexharris Eh. Given the amount of times I've seen "X project used the world over by every multinational ever is badly maintained by like one dude in Nebrahoma because nobody pays for it", I'm not sure about your base argument.
@adriano
My base argument is political. None of the corporations promising to spend literal hundreds of billions of dollars on "AI" are doing it to make tools for users to be more productive for the benefit of those users themselves. And they are essentially stealing the combined informational output of humanity to make a land grab on that productivity. If it pays off, it pays off in unthinkable wealth. Guess how I think they intend that wealth to be distributed. -
@adriano
My base argument is political. None of the corporations promising to spend literal hundreds of billions of dollars on "AI" are doing it to make tools for users to be more productive for the benefit of those users themselves. And they are essentially stealing the combined informational output of humanity to make a land grab on that productivity. If it pays off, it pays off in unthinkable wealth. Guess how I think they intend that wealth to be distributed.@petealexharris I understand your argument, but corpos have managed to coopt and abuse and parasite libre software for decades now, just by using it without paying and without giving back. They didn't need LLMs for that.
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@petealexharris I understand your argument, but corpos have managed to coopt and abuse and parasite libre software for decades now, just by using it without paying and without giving back. They didn't need LLMs for that.
@adriano
Using it is OK. When they got caught violating copyright, which wasn't always I'll grant you, it was uncomfortable for them.With LLMs trained on huge swathes of copyrighted works without scrutiny or attribution they can do it at unprecedented scale, and with regulatory capture letting them do it, they have essentially already carried out the heist.
The only question now is whether they can fence the stolen goods and for how much.
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I agree with you. As a software developer the first thing I always did was to look to see if I could find code that did something like my current project and modify it to do what I needed. Of course I did that. It saved my time and costs for my employer.
AI coding systems are just a faster way to do the same thing. Currently they don't produce very reliable code and it is often better for me to code something from scratch. But sometimes AI saves time.
@galaxy_map @hajovonta I seriously wonder about your understanding of what an LLM is if you think that it's only 'currently'.
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See also: Wikipedia
What ever happened to Musk's "alternative" to Wikipedia?
That thing that was just wholesale theft of material from Wikipedia and elsewhere with added fascism and "free speech".
It was launched with a grand fanfare and every right minded person took one look at it before laughing at Musk some more.
@robcornelius @petealexharris It has shown to be of high quality, apparently: https://framapiaf.org/@davidrevoy/115882389651946345
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I think the appearance of free software really broke the oligarch's brains. People are just giving away stuff that should be Shareholder Value? And we *can't* buy it off them and own it? People are just running a compiler whenever they like to make whatever they want without paying anyone?
The push to adopt LLM-powered code generation tools is so frenzied and desperate partly because it's a perceived solution to claw back ownership of the means of production into the Right Hands.
@petealexharris if I weren’t retired I’d make $$$ off repairing bad ‘ware and documentation generated by LLMs
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I think the appearance of free software really broke the oligarch's brains. People are just giving away stuff that should be Shareholder Value? And we *can't* buy it off them and own it? People are just running a compiler whenever they like to make whatever they want without paying anyone?
The push to adopt LLM-powered code generation tools is so frenzied and desperate partly because it's a perceived solution to claw back ownership of the means of production into the Right Hands.
@petealexharris It was the same way in the early days of web development. Corporations kept pushing for more and more complications until it was no longer something individuals could code without a steep learning curve.
